How many times have we heard this one? The miners are lagging. It’s a sign that gold is topping.  

Absolute baloney!

The miners aren’t lagging, they are consolidating in an extremely bullish triangle continuation pattern.

I said in the Tuesday report that the miners would probably test the upper trend line this week and maybe even breakout. We may get that test as early as tomorrow.

Folks this is now moving into the momentum stage. During this phase of the C-wave we will see gold and silver grind higher day after day. It’s not unusual to see the metals rise at a 70 or even 80% clip (7-8 days out of 10 are up days) during the final two daily cycles up in the parabolic blow off top that always unfolds as a C-wave comes to an end. 

The momentum phase is just now starting. 

1,192 thoughts on “BREAKOUT IMMINENT

  1. Mikey


    Not to beat a dead horse, but even Tim Knight’s chart of silver (on his blog today) shows the spike in 1980 to be $42. What gives?

  2. Gary

    Yes I’m lying silver only made it to $42 in 1980. I just wanted to see if you would believe me.

    Now do you feel better?

    It went a little above $50 by the way.

  3. San Diego Jack


    Been on the site, but cannot locate a recommendation list or positions. Is there one?

    Working my way thru previous missives. Like being in college again!

  4. TommyD

    All new people,
    welcome to the greatest show on earth.

    All K-1 filers, chill. Just study what you need to do or consult a taxidermist…

    I can tell the new people about my story(snore, snore ).
    3/10ish/2010 I found Gary’s site through a friend of a friend, Tim Knight’s site and my friends site both had Gary listed. I was a trader then. I lost 1/3 of my IRA retirement and the wife said I was hooked to the computer and sadistically lazy. Well shoot, She whipped me and made me feel CHEEP.
    I jointed a men convent, with a few women they graciously allowed, and now I am a winner. I can tie my own shoes too!

    Truth: I stopped shorting and fast trading and started SLOWLY reading and ASKING questions to the board here. From day one (1) other members helped me out. I did buy into the long position for gold and silver, trusting, from GARY, that the BULL would correct any ill-placed entry.

    That last line above is critical in this writing. I openly accepted the writing of another human person, saying that I trust your knowledge and judgment. VERY HEAVY STUFF…Yes, the fine print says – invest at own risk,,,pride, etc.. I do see the logic and I DO ACCEPT THE RISK.
    Am I ahead after one whole year? Yes. will I continue to make money? It’s a risk we all must accept or not accept.

    Welcome all of you new people and I hope that you will grow in knowledge from Gary and this board.

    Good luck to everyone, whether we are new members or are longtime followers.


  5. Mikey


    I’m not trying to challenge you or aggravate anybody… I just want to make sure that all the bolts are tightened on our rocket ship to 50. 🙂

  6. Hot Rod


    I thought it might have been a mistake when you said 70 to 80 percent but it seems not after your free post tonight.

    Are you saying 70% from a lower area of from here at $36? From here it would be closer to $60, not $50.



  7. ease

    New Folks, I was still trying to make up from losses from 2008 (Emerging Markets Eastern Europe). was making some money on Gold last year and I lit up. Then I found Gary, the best Gold/Silver guide you will find on the internet. I dumped all my other news services and trade alerts as they couldn’t compare to Gary’s insight and knowledge and patience to guide us along. Welcome all New Subs (Subscribers -took me a while to learn I was a Sub.)

  8. MrMiyagi

    I guess you missed my question at the top, we’re still looking at the latter part of Aptil timeline… trip to Vegas the first week.. wife.. don’t want to be glued to the screen.
    And, dollar index a concern?

  9. Avann

    Mikey … maybe this clears it up for you … the $50 was an intraday high … it never actually closed at $50 … on the very same day it hit $50 it closed at $42.

  10. Elaine

    So, about the K-1, if you had AGQ in an IRA, are there special tax issues? I had looked at MLPs at one point but decided against those because the can generate taxes that have to be paid even in an IRA. I have AGQ in another IRA account.

    Thanks for the help.


  11. Beksachi

    Thanks Poly for pointing out in earlier post that this is a secular bull market for gold/silver (unlike the 1980s) and hence, cycles analysis may be more effective this time for mitigating sudden collapses.

    I feel better now!

  12. Trader H


    not sure if this has any weight or not but with everything going on in japan and the slow down and shut down of many companies that produce products there, will this affect the demand and supply of silver? I remembering reading that the demand (around 820+ mill) will outstrip the supply (around 700+ mill)because silver is put into everything we buy. With the shut down in companies in japan, will the supply start to increase over the demand and affect the price of silver?

  13. Gary

    The only time a swing has any meaning is when it potentially forms a cycle low. It’s still too early in the cycle for this swing to signal a cycle low. The odds are this is just one of those meaningless swings that happen all the time.

  14. Steven


    I received the K-1 for AGQ that had an income component (not my gain but their income) that was more than my realized gain for the year! And I’m sure I never received a distribution as the gold/silver ETFs don’t make distributions. I sent everything to my accountant tonight and will report back tomorrow on what he says.

  15. NJ


    Any thoughts on Emerging Market indices over the next year or 2? Decoupling from the SPX? or following the SPX into another bear market?

  16. fat boy

    It seams silver has led the way a lot in the run up we have had.
    Could silver also lead out of the top first
    Feeling fat again by the way

  17. Paul

    I see your point in sticking to SIL. I owned MGN last month and sold on strength around 3.80. Two or three days later they announced a private offering. MGN fell to 2.30ish. I got lucky on that one.

  18. NJ

    Thanks Gary…Reason I asked is the liquidity pumped by central banks could find its way to commodities and high growing emerging markets than an anemic growth US economy

  19. don


    I could not find anything on stock market in last nights report.
    What is your take on stock market now? I mean have you changed your view of EXTREMLY LEFT transalated cycle (as opposed to Doc’s cycle count and guess on IT Low). Dollar is giving up gains (as expected), crude is rallying (as expected) BUT market is showing good STRENGTH? I would appreciate your inputs as i feel we are close to the moment of truth.

  20. David

    Gary, you have mentioned b/f that you would be worried that the dollar could rally if dollar bears reached extreme bearish sentiment. My wire service(IFR/Reuters) has dollar bulls at just 9% for 1 month out(their lowest reading in years). Whose sentiment numbers do you look at?

  21. Gary

    Sentiment trade has the public opinion poll at 26% bulls. This level can be maintained for months with minor releases of pressure during dead cat bounces at daily cycle lows.

  22. Gallo


    What do we need to know about the K1 issue with AGQ? Any special tax considerations we should know about. Thanks as always.

  23. ddn3f


    If you are right about the couple of up days and the half cycle pause. Then $40 would be a good half cycle pause. It is a big round number and if it reaches it in 2-3 days with the strong moves you are expecting, we would be around day 10. That’s smack in the middle of half a cycle.

    So what happens after the half cycle low Poly?

  24. bamster


    Can silver continue to rise without gold’s support? It seems that gold gets beaten back pretty easily when it attempts to breakout.

  25. archrival

    Gallo, AGQ is a Limited Partnership. There are special tax implications compared to equities. It is very possible you could lose money in your position and get stuck with a hefty tax bill. They are not immune from tax free accounts either. I avoid MLP’s & LP’s at all costs.

  26. DG

    Bad start on my SPX short. I will cut some off quick as I love small losses (and hate moderate-sized ones). The signal works best when it starts off right away. If I sell 1/2 the SDS and we wind up dropping later, and i break even, no harm. I don;t mind missing a possible profit but do mind taking larger losses. (I wish I could figure out how to tweak the sells so they become as good as the buys).

  27. Hot Rod

    Sorry, the link didn’t go thru on my iPhone.

    Here is the info on the site and then links to this page and the FAQ where it is explained.

    If someone got a K-1 – would you please share the amount per share (gain or loss) that they are hitting you with?


    Since this fund is treated as a partnership for tax purposes an investor’s allocated portion of any income, gains, losses and deductions is reported on a Schedule K-1. That means investors do not receive a Form 1099-DIV. For more information, please read FAQs on Commodity and Currency ProShares Taxation.

    No distributions have been made for this fund.

    All ETFs are required by the IRS to distribute substantially all of their income and capital gains to shareholders at least annually. For specific tax advice, we recommend you seek advice from a qualified tax professional.

  28. Hot Rod

    Sorry, the link didn’t go thru on my iPhone (and gets truncated after I click on “publish” – I swear).

    Here is the info on the site and then links to this page and the FAQ where it is explained.

    If someone got a K-1 – would you please share the amount per share (gain or loss) that they are hitting you with?


    Since this fund is treated as a partnership for tax purposes an investor’s allocated portion of any income, gains, losses and deductions is reported on a Schedule K-1. That means investors do not receive a Form 1099-DIV. For more information, please read FAQs on Commodity and Currency ProShares Taxation.

    No distributions have been made for this fund.

    All ETFs are required by the IRS to distribute substantially all of their income and capital gains to shareholders at least annually. For specific tax advice, we recommend you seek advice from a qualified tax professional.

    Here is the key and faulty link….
    I am splitting it into 3 – you have to concatenate.

    (part 1)

    (part 2) commodity_currency_proshares_

    (part 3) taxation_faqs.html

  29. DG

    For whoever is researching the K-1 tax issue. This from ETFdaily News

    Another form of commodity ETFs that are taxed at an unfriendly rate are grantor trusts which hold physical metals, like the SPDR Gold Shares (NYSE:GLD) and the iShares Silver Trust (NYSE:SLV). These funds are deemed as collectibles by the IRS and taxed at 28%. *On the bright side, they do not generate realized capital gains or interest income.*

    I have seen so many conflicting stories on this!

  30. Poly

    $40 would be a dream to hit by then, but no action.

    With all my lottery plays, I’m going for gold! I’m not selling out at 300% profit to watch it hit 1,500% 2 weeks later. We picked these lottery’s because they have a “calculated” shot at a big pay day. So I will ride these to expiration or if I feel we’ve topped a daily cycle, like last cycle lottery) will try to dump at the top.

    I might take 100 of 300 off the table @ $0.60 to pay for lottery. Still hoping for around $2 out of these, but wont be surprised to get $3.50, but more than prepared to lose it all.

  31. Keys

    A question to the blog.

    What happens if silver leads the charge and hits our price target well in advance of a final gold parabolic move? Ie say silver hits $50, while gold is still hovering around not finished its grind to its top. Normally silver shouldn’t correct while gold grinds higher, but silver is very volatile.

  32. Poly

    Keys, I would say that price is simply a prediction or guide, nothing says it can not go much higher (or lower), we would still be following Gary’s cycle analysis.

  33. DG

    Poly and Keys: I believe there is no cycle that will help us at the top as they only time bottoms. We’ll have some general idea as to timing because a bottom will be due in so-and-so many days, but I suspect Gary will just have us sell into the coming froth. That’s why he says he always sells early. Especially if we start blowing off cycles can become distorted. Gary, is that right?

  34. ddn3f


    I meant $40 silver by the half cycle pause. That looks doable at this point if you are right with 2-3 days of strong moves. I will hold until we think the daily cycle has topped.

  35. Poly

    You’re right DG, fully aware that cycles work on lows.
    But for this purposes, they still serve as a great guide to picking a top. If it’s late in the timing band for a cycle low and we start to spike (typical top) that would be out sign to dump.

  36. Poly


    I know that’s what you meant. It would be very nice and certainly possible ($2.30 not much the way she moves), but was trying to saying that it wouldn’t be actionable, for me. Got to resist any temptation to cash them 🙂

  37. Keys

    I intend to hedge out my positions during the D-wave, as previously mentioned on this blog. Gary has been too bang on for me to ignore.

    My scenario becomes a what happens if…silver really really takes off fast, and is so stretched beyond gold’s pace that the reasonable thing for it to do would be for it to correct or consolidate. But in this scenario gold is clearly not done in its move upwards.

    If we get to that point, we get to it I guess…but I think this scenario has a probability attached to it.

  38. Gary

    I think you might want to check the batteries in your calculator. At the recent top the S&P was up slightly more than 100% from the 09 bottom and still well below all time highs. Anyone who got caught and held through the bear market is still deeply underwater.

    Miners on the other hand are up almost 300% and considerably above their 07 highs.

    The general stock market isn’t even in the same ball park as mining stocks.

  39. pimaCanyon

    DG (and anyone else who knows anything about K-1),

    Do you know whether the K-1 tax issues would apply to positions that you have/had in an IRA?

    All other tax related implications you can pretty much ignore if it occurred in an IRA, but this K-1 stuff is new to me.

    Get rid of the damn tax code and the IRS!!!! For income tax, do what Andy Rooney drew on a chalk board decades ago:

    C) YOUR INCOME (A – B)
    D) TAX: 15% OF LINE C

  40. Fatguy

    Well, this can’t be good for the dollar

    Two years ago, George Soros said he wanted to reorganize the entire global economic system. In two short weeks, he is going to start – and no one seems to have noticed.
    On April 8, a group he’s funded with $50 million is holding a major economic conference and Soros’s goal for such an event is to “establish new international rules” and “reform the currency system.”

  41. Poly


    A Schedule K-1 is a tax information form listing a taxpayer’s share of income generated by an investment in a partnership. As one of the many benefits of an Individual Retirement Account (IRA) is the tax-deferral on all income generated in the account, you might be surprised if you receive a year-end K-1, which lists items such as taxable income and capital gains. Fortunately, in most cases, the tax-deferred status of your IRA is intact, and you do not need to report K-1 information on your IRA investments.

    Source: TurboTax.

  42. Brian

    Guys and Gals, Because they are set up as Limited Partnerships, securities such as AGQ, UNG, UUP, et al, report at the end of the year on a K-1 as opposed to a 1099. Usually on the 1st page there is a list of what you report, and if not, it will be on actual K-1. There is no big mystery here. Just a different way than you may be used to receiving this information.

    The facts are, this is another way to report, Interest Income, Net Short Term Capital Gains(Losses), Contracts and Straddles(these funds use these to create the leverage), and Dedeuctions for Investment Expenses.

    The K-1 is really NO BIG DEAL.

    As for being treated as collectibles. If they are doing that (I have no information on that yet), it would change your taxable rate on Cap Gains to a max of 28% from a minimum of 15%, although few of us hold long enough to get the minimum rate, so the taxes will be comparable.

    Bottom line for all the hand wringers is, I would not let the tax tail be the wagger of the profit dog. Enjoy your gains, and give Uncle Sam your little piece of the pie.

  43. PressurePointAdmin

    I dont like “i told you so” kind of comments but looking back at my previous comments it would appear tha we have had the bounce and a re seasonally heading into highs in May. Im expecting the miners to hea into some seasonal bearish tendencies towards the end of march, those miners that hold up well will be the prime candidates for adding to the long side ahead of teh correction in equtiies in may. Right now im only concerned with seasonal trading. I believe some of the financials and commodity related stocks (Coffee) also look like they are heading higher into May.

  44. pimaCanyon


    Thanks! I thought that was the case. I had a couple of piddly ass K-1 numbers, I mean less than $50 each(!) for two small trades I did in my Roth IRA (which is a small account anyway). So I just ignored it figuring if I got audited I’d let the IRS guy figure it out. 🙂

  45. Eamonn

    Sorry I had to post “test”. I need to do that in order to receive updates on the blog comments. Nice to see silver shining again :o)

  46. Driver

    Fatguy, the link doesn’t work.

    What makes Soros the economic god. He needs to be allowed to change things if they’re going to be changed. Maybe he will be since some say he’s the elite puppet master whose pulling the strings of presidents (and so-called presidents.)

  47. PST

    I’ve been charting along with you trying to learn as much as I can about cycle analysis. Are there any books or resources out there that you recommend to get a better understanding of this topic?

  48. Gary

    Hui is testing the trendline I mentioned in this post today. I expect we will see a breakout either tomorrow or early next week.

  49. Yash


    How much more gain showed on k-1 than your actual gain?

    someone also mentioned that daily prices will be baked with gain/loss. I think thats why over period of entire year its not very high gain per share. 2009 has 21 dollars per share. but since we hold only in profitable period of year, its possible in those months agq partnetship also shows large gain and so tax bill will increase. I still get point that tax bill will be less than hefty gains made but one has to remember there is going to be more tax that you would have paid on actual trading gains.

  50. PressurePointAdmin


    I apologise in advance for any newbie comments, however, isnt seasonal analysis really cyclical analysis on a shorter time frame?

    The cycles that you speak of and the knowledge you have acquired over the years regarding cyclical analysis, do you have any “bibles” that you refer consistenly refer to?

  51. David

    My CPA basically said to ignore the K-1 for AGQ related to the IRA.

    She was, however, very careful to check that all the gains reported on the K-1 for the personal account matched the short term capital gains already reported on Schedule D.

    A relief since the tax return was completely finished!

  52. Le Fou

    Dilution of GPL is disappointing, but as I see it, the setback is only temporary, and the damage is done.

    I’m holding onto all of my shares.

    Le Fou

  53. Gary

    Cycles really have nothing to do with seasonal tendencies. Cycles are about human emotions. Those tend to have set timing bands where they run out of steam.

    That happens regardless of seasonality.

  54. PST

    By the way, anyone know why gold/silver often sees selling pressure everyday around 11:00 EST. I know that you sometimes see it around 1:00-1:30 because of the Comex close, but am unsure why my limit orders always get hit around 11:00.

  55. Brian

    My AGQ K-1 only has entries in the Short Term Capital Gains box and the Other Income box (attributed to the contracts and straddles to create the leverage)

    The Master Limited Partnerships (MLP’s) are income generators intended for long term holdings as BLH mentioned as opposed to what we do with AGQ. In that case BLH would have the box for Long Term Capital Gains filled in, along with any other gains or losses.

    On my form AGQ does NOT have the collectibles box filled in, so AGQ IS NOT treated as a collectible. It is taxed at normal Cap Gains rates.

  56. PressurePointAdmin

    thanks for the comments. Sounds like i should start reading up on cycles, it took me probably 1 year to realise that technicals were geared against the public players, even proprietary indicators have limited functionality. Thats when i got into seasonal tendencies with decent success. However im becoming more interested in cycle analysis. Would the “terminology document” be available to subscribers?

  57. wingwalker

    New York,

    I just picked up some GPL. Since we are early enough in daily cycle and GPL has been a leader since the IT low, I like the risk reward here. Will add more as if rises from here or cut it if it closes below the 10d MA.

    *But obviously you need to make your own decisions

  58. pimaCanyon


    I noticed HUI poking slightly above the TL today too.

    Note that GDX, whose chart is very close to the same chart as HUI, broke clearly above that TL today.

  59. Hot Rod


    Can you let us know what the K-1 taxable amounts are per share so you don’t have to give us the total amount?

    Just take the total and divide.

    Or, can you let us know how substantial it was?

    Thanks a lot.


  60. Steven


    What would be the next logical place for silver to either correct / take a breather? Would this be the half-cycle and, if so, when would that happen? If not then any other thoughts on when we could expect a breather or correction?


  61. archrival

    There are hundreds of non mining equities that have blown away the best gold stock over the last 24 months. You changed the parameters with your silly buy and hold arguement. Buy and hold has been dead for years.

  62. Steven


    One more question. I understand that the cycles are driving this move. However, do you think there is also perhaps a short squeeze going on at the same time and is that what usually happens during this last phase of the C wave?

  63. Gary

    Maybe at $40 unless it happens with still a lot of time left in the daily cycle then I would expect it to trade through it.

  64. Brian

    Hotrod, Anybody can easily figure their rate. Dollars out minus dollars in divided by number of shares. Your tax rate on the gain will generally be the highest Sam has due to the short term nature of this holding. This can be anywhere from 0 to 35% depending on your other total income.

  65. Poly

    Seems like the cycle is now in full swing. Yesterday they were building positions, TODAY they are panicking for positions.

  66. PST

    Do people on this board recommend having significant exposure to physical gold and silver in addition to paper? Obviously not as liquid during corrections but does provide some peace of mind in a worst case scenario.

  67. Hot Rod


    So for AGQ, we don’t get a statement from the Brokerage in January for Tax filing – we wait until we get the K-1?

    I’m more confused after your last post.

    I thought the K-1 was a form in addition to the normal sales reporting.


  68. Bob loves Hawaii

    Yash, and all. I just opened my Proshare K-1 (received yesterday)and my short term gains from last year matched my Schwab Cap gain.

    So a wash for me. There was no distibutions.

    Look at box L, cap contributed plus cap gains match the withdrawls.

  69. Michael

    On the same chart posted by Gary I see an IHS which is just reaching the neck line. It is about to breakout!
    Does anyone else sees what I see?

  70. archrival

    Brian, I’m a lover not a fighter!

    For the record, I am in agreement with Gary with gold/silver.

    My disagreement comes with the arguement that miners and pm’s are the only place to be. I have traded both over the last 2 years and have had much greater success with tech stocks than miners.

    As for the general market I think it will rise with gold in this C wave. I’m sure there will be a point when they decouple, just not now, imo. This is coming from someone that remains extremely bearish this economy and eventually the stock market again, but not until QE 2 has run its course.

    Hope you guys welcome alternate views, if not say the word, I’ll disappear. I’m not a beanie, et al.


  71. T.J. Rand


    You’ll get mixed opinions on holding physical. I personally do, but there are a lot of smart people on this board who do not.

  72. Bob loves Hawaii

    You should only see a difference from your K-1 and your 1009 from your brokerif;

    you did not sell and the ETF had a distribution.

    Divvies should be picked up on your broker statement, as well.

    Box L should show your delta and your tax obligation.

  73. Tudor

    Options question for the Gary and the board:

    I’m holding SLW June calls at various strikes DITM ($35, $36, $40). I’m up 75-200% + on them. Since it’s SLW, liquidity is good, so getting out at a decent price is not an issue.

    In light of the anticipated blast off, should I stay with these positions, or roll all or part of them up to a higher strike at the same expiration? I could also roll them out to September, but I’m not sure there would be an advantage to that since the C-wave should be over long before. With the wind at our backs, I’m thinking now would be the time to add a bit more risk.

  74. Jayhawk

    Ugh. This tax stuff bums me out…Makes my eyes bleed trying to figure out all this crap.

    I was looking at that I H&S too Micheal. Not sure where to put a neckline and I would look at the Nov/Dec zone as the Rt shoulder. Regardless, once it breaks up that sucker should run hard.

  75. Brian

    Hotrod, You are correct. The K-1 is a separate report. Most similar to a 1099.

    My broker does not include my Cap Gains from these securities on their 1099. Hence the K-1

  76. TommyD

    Bob Loves,

    I thought if the K-1 showed anything, which mine did not, that this would be what is taxable.

    Now, I am below 59.5 so this maybe
    something I will need to know when I reach that mark and have to declare cap-gains… I am sorry if I said this is a non-issue. I guess age may be a factor. I hear it stinks getting older…

  77. DG

    Archrival: Alternate views are always welcomed here. Just…
    1. Offer the alternate view with respect for Gary/us
    2. Give reasons for it and be precise
    3. Don’t repeat your position over and over
    4. Have a reason for posting Shouting (“We’re goona zoom!” is not a reason for posting)

    The only guys who get run out of town are the obnoxious ones or who show up to gloat every time they are right for five minutes. Fair enough? [I have to say even the name “Archrival” sounds like you are looking to pick a fight.]

  78. Jennifer

    I’m giddy. Is it wrong that I want this C wave to be over with already so that I can get in at the bottom of the A this time, instead of half way through the C?

  79. T.J. Rand


    I have June 35s and 40s as well…and this morning had an order loaded to add more but just couldn’t push ‘enter’. I was looking at June 45s…wish I’d done it!

    In my view, higher strikes might be OK, but I’m fairly conservative, so I would try to stay lower than where I expect the move to end…plus i’d try to sell while the price is still rising. September might just cost you more.

  80. Michael


    Yes I also see the left shoulder formed in Nov-Dec and the right is forming in March. About 50 point from head to the neck. Target of 50 points from $580?

  81. Bob loves Hawaii

    Tudor, I do that alot. But I do it to take money off the table.

    For me, I am taking money off the table NLT Tuesday and set a buy stop on my next trade and walk it down into the daily cycle low. Rolling April to May. September puts you in the teeth of the D wave, I imagine.

    Remember pressure comes off the shorts by Tuesday, which ties beautifully to the half cycle high.

    Anyway my thoughts.

  82. Leo


    According to the screener on number 4 performer of all 6762 issues they track was AG, GPL was #6 and AGQ was a respectable #18 with 325% gain. As a holder of AGQ (sold all of my miners and moved everything into AGQ some months ago) I would like to know how I could have done better holding any other basket of equities. Have YOU done better than 325% over the last 12 months?

  83. archrival

    DG, thanks for the ground rules.

    Don’t think I have abused yet.

    I’m from St. Louis, maybe that helps you understand the name.

    Go GOLD and GL!

  84. NPC


    hope this is not too stupid a question but will you be tempted to sell a small amount of your non-core position when silver takes a breather at $40? You could then get back in at say $36/37 for the next ride up. I’m not suggesting a large trade – perhaps 10-15% of the overall funds invested.

    Thanks for the sub service as well!

  85. Brian

    archrival, No problem for me, but realize you are on a Precious Metal blog. Arguing for tech stocks will not matter to many here. We are for the most part quite comfortable with what we are doing.

    You could do yourself a favor, and pick just about any one of these junior miners from their 2008 low, and I think you will find few tech stock that beat their returns.

  86. archrival

    Leo, my first purchase off the bottom was BIDU around $150. Yes I was about $50 late to the party but it now trades at $130 after a 10/1 split. I still hold 25% of those shares.

  87. Brian

    Tudor, I am still holding SLW June 30’s bought at the Jan low. Currently up 300%. Last cycle a similar play did 1500%. I will hold them until Gary says we should exit. I did add June 41’s at the daily cycle low, but I hate to buy calls into strength.

  88. Bob loves Hawaii

    It is OK if I am early, and if it runs, I will already trigger my May buy stops. The COMEX delivery is Tuesday, and the week following a big run up to delivery sells off.

    Something to keep in mind.

  89. Mike

    Dollar is barfing up all of yesterday’s gains. So glad I’m on the PM train. Primarily in AGQ with some ITM options on SLW and SLV (no SIL or juniors) to get 1.4x leverage (no margin). I plan on unloading the options (or at least selling calls against them to lock in gains) as the risk/reward ratio increases towards the end of the next daily cycle.

    DG, imagine if you’d put those SDS shares in AGQ instead!

  90. Leo

    Archrival, that is an interesting tidbit, I made good money on BIDU as well (even though not as much as you did) and I could share with you my successes about the same time with F and AAPL etc.

    The question was though, how did your entire portfolio do over the last year? And what equity basket could have beaten AGQ?

  91. Mike

    I’m in similar options as you – May or June at the latest. I think you’ll just take on unnecessary premium rolling out to September. If things change (dollar 3 year cycle low gets pushed out to August) I may consider rolling out to the fall months…

  92. Brian

    archrival, I have AG, AXU, CDE, EXK, FVITF, GPL, HL, MVG, PZG, SLW, and SVM for silver plays. I spread it out in case of a blowup, which I have had happen. A few jr golds like AAU, GORO, NGD, but mostly silver miners.

  93. archrival

    Leo, I have not outperformed AGQ over the last year. But, I have outperformed it over the last 2 years.

    My guess the only basket that could have beaten AGQ would have been a 3X silver vehicle.

  94. Tudor

    Thanks for the thoughts gang.

    Brian, nice play. Here’s hoping for a repeat. I also had a small (3 contracts) position of Jun 31’s that I’ve held from $4 to $15+. The delta was at .90. I just rolled the entire position up to Jun 45’s. I think I might roll up about a third of my DITM positions and let the majority of them ride.

  95. DG

    Mike: I am almost never 100% invested and always have some cash or at least margin around (for when things like Japan happen—I did well buying into that). If I don’t own more AGQ it’s not due to lack of funds, so other trades have no effect on my PM holdings. It’s not “either/or.”

  96. Leo

    Archrival, I thought I guess, you are one of those people who enjoy trading for its own sake, as a hobby. I am too lazy for that, I prefer reading books and studying dead languages.

    The beauty of following Gary is that I do not have to trade. Just read my daily updates and occasionally adjust my position(s).

    There are many ways to skin this cat and I prefer the least labor-intensive one.

    GOLD at a new high! This is just the beginning of the ride!!

  97. Duuuuuude

    I have a friend who has been accumulating silver now for over 3 years. He was not aware of the ABCD pattern, or the cycles the dollar follows. He does not doubt that silver could go to $50 or higher, but does not want to sell his physical silver either. Apparently, he has to pay 6% Kentucky sales tax on it, plus the other tax consequences. Any suggestions on how to best hedge his physical holdings once silver hits $50? I thought about puts, but I suspect the volatility at that time could work against him.

  98. n1tro

    if hamster posts, i’m sure you will see he has a large amount of physical silver. i personally have 1000 oz and going to keep through the D wave.

  99. Mike

    That’s prudent and understandable DG. I’m sure you slept a lot better than most here during the last daily cycle as well. Though on the flip side days like the last two are really nice when you are 😉

  100. Brian

    Tudor, I am not a skillful trader like a lot of folks here. For options, I try to buy the intermediate low, and let them run the full cycle. Has been a very profitable strategy.

  101. Gary

    It sounds like Archrival is just a very poor trader of miners. What have I said time after time?

    Hold don’t trade.

    The only time to trade is at intermediate tops and bottoms and even then I only do it with part of my account. I always keep a core position.

  102. DG

    Dude: Just have him short the appropriate amount of SLV or AGQ. He’ll make a dollar on the short for every dollar he loses on his physical (he might want to check the tax consequences, though…)

  103. Wes


    I think you miss the point. We don’t buy and hold gold or silver.

    We trade gold and silver derivatives. You would be very hard pressed to identify the stocks that could compete with the returns generated from this.

  104. DumbMovingAvg

    hokas pokas.
    No offense intended.
    I for one just read Gary’s comments on this blog. I do not read this blog to get alternate views from other forum members. I am here for a specific reason. Not to chat, but I have done that; so I understand. I know you think that no harm is done, but it can get confusing; and we do not want to be lead astray.

  105. Silverman

    Hot Rod,

    Thanks a lot for the Power Shares link. I see that I can actually download my K-1 data into Turbo Tax and let TurboTax figure out the tax due. Since TurboTax keeps a running tally of the total tax due I will immediately be able to see the impact of the AGQ K-1 once I import it – very cool!

    I will report back my experience once I have done this – maybe this weekend.

    Thanks again!

  106. Brian

    Mike and Tudor, I am not rolling up and out because it is apparent the 3 year dollar cycle is unfolding as Gary has been preparing us for years. Seems silly to me to buy more time premium and give up DITM options.

  107. DumbMovingAvg

    archrival, THE WORD!$ Ha! Ha!
    Hokas pokas, even!!$$

    I only read this blog because Gary posts in it. I have been with him long enough to know that there is a very small chance that I am ever going to find better advice anywhere, etc. I have stopped looking for better alternatives at this point.

    I would rather not be tempted by any alternatives that might lead me astray. Sorry if I am coming on too strong. No offense itended. Cheers.

  108. bluebox

    Gary – just a word: Thanks.

    Subscription: Best investment money I ever spent.

    401K funds (FKRCX & INIVX, only two worth a damn I have access to) are green and getting greener, already outperforming the S&P by >6% in only a month. Thanks for constantly reminding that this bull will correct any entry timing errors; so far so good.

    Now let’s just sit back and have fun watching the fireworks for the next month or two, eh? Wish I could enjoy the view from the Matterhorn peak someday. My Swiss-born co-worker says it’s spectacular. Found an interesting story about climbing it:

  109. Gary

    I learned my lesson a long time ago. I don’t make stupid mistakes like that anymore.

    What makes you think silver will even come close to trading back down to $36?

    What if it trades right through $40 and I lost my position? Where would I be then?

  110. pimaCanyon


    Thanks for the link.

    Larry said he wants two consecutive closes above 1453 before he will jump on the bandwagon. So if we get those, all of his subs will jump too. That ought to give gold a swift kick higher. 🙂

    (Let’s hope for 1453 to get taken out soon!)

  111. Brian

    archrival, The part you did not ask about are the big alpha generators. From the intermediate low we are near 80% gains on AGQ. At the low I also buy small option positions on the silver miners. The junior miners themselves are considered my core.

  112. Gary

    Another Gary here…

    Regarding AGQ’s partnership structure and K-1, it would be unwise to ignore the tax consequences.

    As an ‘owner’ in the partnership, you will have income or losses associated with your share in units of the partnership that are in addition to those that occur by buying at one price and selling at another.

    In my case, my share of the partnership income was offset by my share of the partnership expense which was added to the cost basis. So, income was higher but so was cost basis of the shares I sold. It ended up pretty close to a ‘wash’.

    However, if I didn’t sell AGQ at all last year, I would have had to recognize the additional ‘phantom’ income and pay taxes on that, while waiting to sell the shares to get the corresponding benefit in cost basis.

    So, if you hold AGQ versus trade AGQ shorter-term, and your tax bracket changes a lot from year-to-year, you may want to think about how this investment vehicle impacts your gains.

    I hope this is helpful.

  113. guy


    me too, i will hold my physical position through the D wave.
    the reason for me to do this is because i don’t regard it as an investment, but as a getaway ticket to start over if/when things get ugly, and i really hope it doesn’t get that far.

  114. Tudor

    Brian said: “Mike and Tudor, I am not rolling up and out because it is apparent the 3 year dollar cycle is unfolding as Gary has been preparing us for years. Seems silly to me to buy more time premium and give up DITM options.”

    That certainly is a reasonable, defendable approach. I also bought at or near the intermediate lows and have decided to let most of the position run. But based on Gary’s work and conviction that the momentum is about to take off, I’m going to back out a third and use it to increase my leverage a little. I’ll still be ITM by a few strikes. Same expiration (June), though.

  115. ddn3f

    New Gary,

    Please consider changing your display name so that others may distinguish between Gary Savage and yourself. I know a lot of people search for Gary Savage’s posts.

  116. Tudor

    Keep in mind that isn’t a third of my entire portfolio, Lord no! That’s just one third of my DITM SLW positions.

  117. coolkevs

    Alrighty, I surrender with my baloney argument 🙂 The low volume all-clear signal has been sounded. Demark indicators for Dollar exhaustion on the DAILY and WEEKLY are down at 74.90. MONTHLY is 72.5. At 72.5, I would look to scale out of your gold/silver trades. For sure, the DXY could overshoot to new lows – anything can happen – but the down dollar trend is your friend until it isn’t as people witnessed in the early 80’s and mid 1995. Just don’t get greedy – follow Gary and you will be OK 🙂
    MONTHLY SPX Demark needs a higher high either in April or May to record a 1-4 month Sell Setup – good from June to September.

  118. Brian

    Tudor, I understood about your position size. I guess the only way I would add options is if the correction between the 2nd and 3rd daily cycle were sharp enough to give me great prices. I have had enough bad experiences with options. I only want to buy them when prices are falling sharply. Definitely not when they are rising sharply. The AGQ covers me during these periods well enough.

    No matter what, I wish you the best with the ones you buy!

  119. Brian

    So we can take coolkevs partially off the top caller list! Excellent. Buy a subscription coolkevs and start making some cash.

  120. Glen

    I didn’t know that Google Blogger would even allow TWO Gary’s? This is going to be a real hassle if we have to try and figure out which Gary is the real one..

  121. pimaCanyon


    Note that Gary who runs this blog has an avatar of him climbing a golden wall.

    The new Gary does not have an avatar pic.

    Easy to tell the diff.

  122. NPC

    Thanks Gary

    I was just wondering whether you would want to risk a small amount in top calling and bottom picking. The compounding effect of that can be huge. But it ain”t easy of course. might just be better to do the old turkey.

  123. ease

    How do you get comments emailed to you? I need to set that up, because when I am out of the country next month for 6 weeks, I am not sure I will get tweets as I can’t get text messages on sms, only email comes in. Thanks in advance.

  124. pimaCanyon

    at ease,

    don’t know anything about getting comments emailed, you’ll have to ask someone else here.

    didn’t know that about the email and the pix, so yeah, a different name for the new Gary would be a good idea.

  125. whitebear


    I’m like you. I only frequent the comment section to hear what Gary is saying. Otherwise, I stick to my own work and (no offense) the rest is just noise.


  126. ease

    ddn3f, I guess I needed to ask you, how do you get comments emailed to you as I won’t be able to get text messages (tweet) out of the country. Thanks

  127. pimaCanyon

    anybody concerned yet about the depth of the pullback from the new highs that were made earlier today? Seems way too early to be moving into a daily cycle low UNLESS the cycle is very left translated and that would not bode well for new highs ahead.

  128. ddn3f


    When you hit “preview your comments” there is a check box that you can check to get comments emailed to you. Try it.

  129. Aaron

    Everyone do yourselves a favor and keep your eyes on the USD, and ignore the short term manipulations in gold and silver. You will do well and keep your sanity.

  130. Keys

    I intend to buy puts against my physical. Most likely at the money, not sure on the time length. The purpose is to create a normal drawdown out of a D-wave, instead of riding it the full way. If gold rockets higher due to some strange and weird moment, I am still long. If the premium on gold ever gets too high, I am still long physical. I intend on buying slv and gld puts.

    I thought about shorting slv or gld instead, but didn’t like the idea of being effectively out of the market.

    Also, if you buy puts in a tax-deferred account, you can delay the tax man since you don’t actually sell your physical.

  131. Avann

    For those getting the emails from the blog … I tried it for a couple of days. It gets very annoying after a while.
    Especially on those 700+ post days.
    Will never do that again …

  132. DailyMovingAvg50/200

    Eammon, silver is just very volitile and this point. Compound that with a 2X like AGQ and you can really get some serious volitility. Just try to ignore the hourly wiggles. Just read the nightly updates is the current Rx for dealing with volitility, etc.

  133. Shalom Bernanke

    This NUGT etf will be a dandy when more people come in and the volume increases. Still new, but it’s making progress.

    I figure if miners should outperform the metals then this would be a good one b/c it doesn’t have individual company risk, but still has 2x the move of the XAU.

    XAU today broke through a downtrend gong back to Dec.

  134. Poly

    Yeah these moves are not uncommon for Silver, can’t have parabolic spikes only 🙂

    Caution you have the MERC closing coming, SO often we see a plunge into that closing.

  135. ddn3f


    This will be good for us. If gold closes in COMEX down and then goes up. We get a Vuvvy/Veronica buy signal. Those are always good.

  136. Robert

    Expirations on Monday for gold and silver.The bullion banks almost always will try to lower the prices around expirations time–happens almost every month, just like clockwork

  137. pimaCanyon


    You around today? Does your system use hourly charts to derive its signals, or just daily charts?

    Are you watching the action today?

    Biggest red hourly bar since 2/24.

  138. Gary

    The day isn’t even over yet. Have you even considered the possibility that big money is trying to drive this down and get you to cough up your shares to them ahead of another big push up?

  139. Silverman


    “The rest is just noise”

    You’re entitled to your opinion but that “noise” has made a number of people on this blog some nice coin. There are some very smart people who are willing to share their considerable knowledge here.

  140. Patung

    I’m only looking at gld, agq, and nugt, they hit their upper channel lines almost perfectly, and bounced back off them with gusto, not the end of the world. Oil tanked also which is another reason

  141. ease

    Just to let you all know if you do follow comments in emails, New Gary, does just list as Gary, so it would help us all if New Gary can change his name on this list for clarification purposes on the blog comments. Thank you in advance New Gary, much appreciated.

  142. oa92000

    “at ease said…
    Thanks ddn3f, I will try that. Hate the idea of being away from the computer with access all the time during this c wave.”

    at ease, you cannot take the laptop with you??

  143. Poly

    “how do we know when the d-wave is here”

    You don’t! That’s what stops are for. They hit, we jump, they don’t we won!

  144. Gary

    Folks C-waves don’t end with a whimper. They end in an orgy of speculation.

    We aren’t even close yet. Gold sentiment is still dead neutral.

  145. Gary

    This was just the first attempt for the HUI to break out of the triangle.

    If not tomorrow certainly by next week.

  146. fat boy

    poly / at ease
    thanks for your concern re my weight
    fyi i get fat when i am at all time high after a swing low
    I get thin during corrections hence the skeleton.
    when i don’t know where I am I am up down and up boy

  147. Duuuuuude

    If the PM Markets had sound, it would sound like air leaking out of a tire…..pshssssssssssssss. Looking forward to using what bit of cash I have left to buy here before the close.

  148. Ryan

    Yes it didn’t feel too good with such a sudden drop but I put my emotions aside and added to SLW. On a side note, any thoughts with gold lagging?

  149. blammo

    Re: GPL, I agree Jayhawk. It is investor-unfriendly and is an example of why Gary recommends SIL over individual miners. I am still up on this trade though so will give it a bit more room.

  150. dallascfp

    Just a little correction after awesome last few days. I learned from Gary on how to stay put and not trade on every wiggle. It has given me great rewards, so hang tight.

  151. Peter

    Since we are all telling stories, I will share mine. I wont give exact numbers, but thru the collapse from 2k6 thru 2k8 I lost 100% of my cash, and since I was leveraged, I actually lost more than I had. So what did I do, remortgaged some property I owned, and tossed that into the market, lost 50 to 60% of that too. Well, started looking at gold because I was tired of the whooping I was taking, and landed on this blog. I started investing in Gold in late ’08 as gold was just below 1000$ .. Gary was telling everyone that we were headed much higher, and I still remmeber as we broke 1000$ , and pulled back, Gary taking loads of abuse .. and handling it with the class he still shows.

    Well, long story short, Feb 28th 2011, after 3 long and difficult years, I can say I am even, and since I can say I am actually in the green. So, to all newbies and short-timers I would tell you to be patient and stay the course.

  152. jminca

    It seems to me that Gary has his finger firmly on the pulse of the markets. I still spend time searching for something that isn’t factored in, some X-factor that will blow this plan. I have not yet found it, thankfully, as I am all in. I found an interesting video in my search….the ‘silver warcry!!’ to help pass the time waiting for the big breakouts to happen.

  153. Eamonn

    Great story, Peter.
    I lost most of my money in China in 2008.
    Since I joined Gary, I sleep better at night. Its that simple

  154. kevin

    JayHawk &

    I am thinking the same thing on GPL. They just finished an offering to pay back debt. Ok fine. But this seemed like a middle of the night “Mayflower” move. Just does not smell right. Been thinking all day, usually when I do not pull the trigger, I regret it. To be fair it has been one of the winners and management has moved forward quickly. But as you stated, do we have time here for this?

  155. Peter

    Eamonn .. thats really whats sad about what happened, the working folk took a beating and the upper class benefitted. I dont know if anyone saw the video, and I am sure it comes as no surprise, but Gary Shilling is talking about the two-tier recovery, and thats exactly what has, and will continue to take place. The rich will get fatter, and the rest will fight over the scraps.

    Take your seat at that table quick … thats my piece of advice.

  156. David


    There’s never a good time to do a share offering.

    These companies all do it, though, and if you’re going to do it, you want to do it when the stock is roaring.

    Think about it: would you rather they raise $5M when the stock is at $4.00 or $2.00?

    Having seen plenty of companies forced to dilute during the 2008 meltdown just to survive, I can tell you the market punishes that much more savagely.

    You may also notice that GPL was up 10% yesterday. It still hasn’t given back yesterday’s gains on this news.

    If you want to sell GPL because you think it’s a momentum stock whose momentum is diminishing, go ahead. But if you’re going to play the juniors, this is something you’re going to have to get used to.

  157. coolkevs

    uup down, slv down, gld down – like the mogambo guru sez “whee! this investing stuff is fun” Somebody just bought 100000 Jun 21 Puts on UUP for .16 – I wish them the best! 4% to DXY 72.5 – current level of UUP is 21.71 => -4% gives 20.84 – if they hold to expiration and DXY at 72.5 that day, they will break even – hurray! 🙂 🙂

  158. Brian

    Jayhawk, This is usually a good time to add to a top performer. The shorts know they can make big money on an announcement like that. People that know the company take advantage too. If all is well with the company today’s action will be recovered quickly. If it is not, then that is the signpost.

  159. TZ(4404)

    Silver margins going up by about 5% at the close of fri.

    It isn’t much and won’t affect the bull, but that and the rollover of gold contract (and the expiration of the current silver delivery month contract) in the next week or so will likely show downward pressure.

    The people who are short and want this thing contained or lower will be more forceful in here.

  160. TZ(4404)

    It is important for the fed and banks manipulating the metals (who gary doesn’t believe in) to contain and drop gold and silver as much as possible in the next week.

    The hit started after gold broke to a new high and sucked in about 10-20k contracts to buy earlier today. Those people have been liquidated, taught a lesson (another reason for such action), and the pressure should continue now.

  161. TZ(4404)

    I’m still heavily long and not changing my positions. My stops are mostly at the “panic japan” lows of last week and should hold. (People who bought higher than that might get some upset now however.)

    And of course it is always possible the manipulation wont be very successful and they get overrun to higher levels (which is also why I am staying put.)

  162. kevin


    Valid points. I do understand. To your point it maybe effective. Selling some at the time in order to be well capitalized. I guess two things. One a had a bit of emotion as I did not want this now for obvious reasons. Thanks for getting me back in check.

    But one of my criteria for juniors is management…how long have they been at the game, how often do they meet their commitments, and how do they treat shareholders. I read the release on their website, in my opinion it just seemed a bit sneaky. Maybe I was expecting two much from this group. David you make valid points, thank you for that

  163. Avann

    I don’t like this kind of action … I’m still all in but I converted my HZU back to CEF … yet again.
    It worked well for me last time.

    I’ll wait to see how this unfolds before I jump back on the HZU wagon again.

  164. TZ(4404)

    >TZ, What is your opinion of the mini gold and silver futures contrcts?

    The liquidity is in the main contracts, but you could do much worse than the mini’s. (Note there are now also MICRO gold and silver futures contracts I believe. I saw a notice on one of the exchanges.)

    The mini’s have wider spreads, less volume, more slippage on a stop, but not horribly so.

    And they also trade at slightly less number of “24 hours” than the regular contracts. (Regulars open at 6pm each day, the minis at 7:15pm I believe. No idea on the micros).

    Like I said, prob still better than AGQ cause you get almost 24hr trading and you still get the favorable tax treatment (verify).

    I guess trade the mini’s till you get enough money to trade the main ones. (Obviously anything has risk. This is not advice. And don’t do anything you dont’ understand fully.)

  165. coolkevs

    one more for the road:
    Invest in GDX Dec 7, adjusted high 64.22
    Today’s price: 59.84 (3:28 EST)
    Return: -6.8%

    Invest in EWJ Dec 7, adjusted close – 10.49
    Today’s price: 10.62
    Return: + 1.2%
    Even with the nuclear accident, Japanese ETF is still ahead of GDX since GDX hit its high in December. How long that will last, who knows, but it does amuse me 🙂

  166. Ryan

    I know we’re not suppose to worry about the intraday wiggles but I am concerned that we hit an all time high in gold and just kept on dumping from there.

  167. David


    Having been through this experience many times, it always feels like getting mugged.

    Ultimately, the market will tell you how to interpret the news. If the market feels that management is diluting the stock to line their own pockets, or that they’re mismanaging cash, the stock will start to underperform its peers.

    Other times, the market shrugs it off as the cost of doing business and it’s forgotten within a few days.

    In the middle of a move like this, a dilution will probably be shrugged off quickly. Over the next few weeks, anything with the word “silver” in it is going higher.

    But it bears watching. There are tons of former momentum PM stocks that were the GPL of their day. Once the market falls out of love with them, it’s time to move on to the next one.

    Gary will also tell you that this is why he doesn’t invest in individual juniors any more — so he doesn’t have to wake up to bad news.

  168. Poly

    Nice drop, boys in the pit love this shit. (Pit still around?)

    Funny bulls blame a measly 5% margin hike, stuff they do ALL the time on fast moving instruments.

    Well still only down $0.40 for the entire day though 🙂

  169. PST

    Had to post this recent summary from zerohedge for all looking for an explanation for the recent selloff.

    “In tried and true fashion, just as Silver was about to viciously destabilize the global capital markets as it surged to new 31 year highs, the CME stepped in and did its usual 3-6 half life intervention by hiking initial and maintenance margins on silver futures from $11,138 and $8,250 to $11,745 and $8,700 respectively. This is merely the latest margin hike in what appears to be a neverneding series designed to reduce speculative “fervor” courtesy of endless liquidity. What it will do is merely provide a better entry point for those who by now realize that silver’s next stop in the fiat endgame is $40, then $50, and so forth. Naturally, the price drop in silver caused gold to sell off too. And now that the CME accepts gold as collateral, we can’t even visualize the reflexive loops that develop once the metal that is also a collateral currency becomes more and less valuable at the same time.”

  170. Brian

    I know we’re not supposed to worry about intraday wiggles… BUT THIS IS THE TOP I AM LIQUIDATING EVERYTHING INCLUDING MY FINE SILVER TEA KETTLE!

  171. Gavin

    The current pullback to (as I write) 3698, is a normal shake out the weak hands pullback. To be expected after such a huge run up and with margins being raised.

    However, for those of you trading out there, it has just bounced off trendline support on the four hour chart. Looks like this will hold. If it does not I am lightening up slightly, but obviously retaining core position.

    I’ve posted the chart here:

  172. Poly

    “Here goes my profits again but I believe in Gary and holding!”

    Ha, What do you mean? We’re up HUGE, it’s a 40cent drop!

  173. wingman

    First Majestic (AG) up 4% on massive volume. Avg. volume 750,000; today on pace for 3,000,000. Looks like the big boys are seeing where the quality is and are starting to accumulate it. Remember, this just went to NYSE big board three months ago.

  174. Rick 4779

    “You all know that a fish will not rise to the fly in calm water. It is when the wind blows and the surface is ruffled that the poor victim mistakes the lure for a genuine fly. So it is with the business affairs of the world. In stormy times, when prices are going up and down, when the value of the article used as money is dancing about – up today and down tomorrow – and the waters are troubled, the clever speculator catches the fish and fills his basket with the victims.”
    Andrew Carnegie – The ABC of Money – 1891

  175. Poly


    OK, but I’ve seen you around for a while, maybe you were not completely “believe(ing) in Gary and holding”


    You will be fine.

  176. PST

    I was a new sub in late Feb and felt the same way at each pullback. Now, not even a month later, my cost basis is well below today’s price and I’ve quickly come to appreciate the pullbacks as buying opps. That’s not a recommendation to buy, just my own personal experience.

  177. Ryan


    I was in the same boat during the intermediate low. I wasn’t fully confident so I added a bit and I’ve been adding all the way up and dips. I just keep listening to Gary and keep thinking to myself it should be ok. I still even added today!

  178. Yash

    cool – gdx is really done nothing vis-a-vis October top. Its just above that. any regular equity much better in same period. gold oct top was 1387 so actual gold is up 3% in same period. I trust gary but it seems to me that regular equity has to keep going up (even if its at less rate) to get gdx really running. so now in remaining period regular equity may go up in small percentage and gdx may go up in much higher percentage but regular equity also has to go up. otherwise i don’t think gdx is going to run only becuase of gold.

  179. Shalom Bernanke

    Another attractive feature with the NUGT etf is that it has both gold and silver miners.

    I can’t wait til this one starts trading like the other leveraged funds.

  180. LowTax

    Hmmm… general market vs. PM’s. I got one of my buddies interested in Gary’s approach by creating an Excel spreadsheet that kept track of a sample PM portfolio and sharing that with him. I started at the begining of 2010. Here are the results as of a couple of days ago:

    SPY: +11.9 annualized
    PM Portfolio: +98%

    I’ll stick with Gary’s approach.

  181. Patung

    Gary, I’m not much of a candles guy, but I think you need to address in the report those really UGLY looking candles on today’s charts, gold one looks like a piercing bearish candle, silver looks like a shooting star, although neither opened above previous day’s high so that probably lessens their impact but nevertheless they do look UGLY.

  182. Driver

    From ZH:

    Something rather disturbing from a European trading desk…


  183. Gary

    Go back and look at other C-wave’s and big legs up. You will see lots of these big “ugly” candles. Sometimes they lead to short term weakness. Most of the time they are meaningless and only succeed in getting the emotional retail investor to cough up his shares in front of another push higher.

    Our stops are in place. We can’t lose money (as long as you got in at the intermediate bottom).

    Just have the discipline to follow the plan.

  184. ease

    I sold off two mutual funds and took the penalty today, I am sure they will call me again and tell me you shouldn’t do that, we will boot you out on one more. So will buy in the morning for opportunities with the lower prices. I have to hold off for my last sell out on GOLD mutual fund until the 28th/20th of March or they boot me out for good. 4 hits and you are done. So will wait for 28th/29whenever it lets me sell as of 30 days. At least it’s in Gold fund, so should be mutual fund with account activity/abilities and won’t be mutilated with funds accounts capability to get back in.

  185. Yash

    low tax .. we were comparing just gdx .. PM portfolio is different and gary pm portfolio dosen’t even have gdx (which is good thing)
    no argument against pm portfolio.

  186. David

    at ease,

    What fund/brokerage company are you in?

    Even Vanguard won’t kick you out for selling your funds.

    You may want to think about relocating to a brokerage that lets you do what you want with your money.

  187. ease

    Fidelity Funds, they block you from reinvesting in their funds accounts if you do a roundtrip within 30 days. I had to downsize some other mutual funds into these 3 main funds in Feb. So have been collapsing all the mutual funds investments down to 3 and the last to stand is the Gold fund, which I can get out by the 29th of March and not get blocked. I think it is 85 days before you can get back in. So I think I am ok with this plan. I like Fidelity, no problems otherwise. Just had to read the fine print and found out it is 4 round trips and they block you, not 3. So will wait for 29th on the last sell off. Wanted to play safe down the road with Hubbys account as he retires next year and wants that Villages home from his funds.

  188. David

    at ease,

    The fund companies do that to discourage market timers who switch in and out of funds as part of a strategy, although I can’t imagine who still does that now that ETFs are readily available.

    Easiest thing to do is get a brokerage account at Fidelity. On the brokerage side you do what you want, no questions asked. Then, if you want to switch back to mutual funds long term, you always have that option.

  189. Poly

    @ at_ease,

    That sounds more like a “IRS Wash Rule” than a Fidelity rule. Trust me, nobody rejects re-invested assets because you cash out before.

  190. Hot Rod


    If silver closes at 5:45 EST at $37.20 or higher (positive)..

    Will today be officially considered an outside day reversal (bullish)?


  191. ease

    Poly, they do say it’s an rule they have to follow. Unfortunately I had just diversified my hubbys funds into a variety of sectors in January before I found Gary. So have been collapsing out of them all slowly and investing in Silver and Gold for his account. Getting there. Just trying to make money for him, not lose it and follow their rules as best I can.

  192. fubsy_cooter

    If we open lower I will add still more. Probably just a smidge of AGQ…another 3% then…Wow!! I’ll be leveraged! : )
    My Allocation:
    SLV 30%
    SIL 24%
    GDXJ: 23%
    SLW: 11%
    AGQ: 10%
    Currently at 98%.

  193. Le Fou

    And Like Clockwork, CME Hikes Silver Margins Halting Surge
    In tried and true fashion, just as Silver was about to viciously destabilize the global capital markets as it surged to new 31 year highs, the CME stepped in and did its usual 3-6 half life intervention by hiking initial and maintenance margins on silver futures from $11,138 and $8,250 to $11,745 and $8,700 respectively. This is merely the latest margin hike in what appears to be a neverneding series designed to reduce speculative “fervor” courtesy of endless liquidity. What it will do is merely provide a better entry point for those who by now realize that silver’s next stop in the fiat endgame is $40, then $50, and so forth. Naturally, the price drop in silver caused gold to sell off too. And now that the CME accepts gold as collateral, we can’t even visualize the reflexive loops that develop once the metal that is also a collateral currency becomes more and less valuable at the same time.

    Le Fou

  194. Gary

    Folks you aren’t doing yourself any favors with this manipulation nonsense.

    All that happened was the HUI rallied up and tested the triangle consolidation trend line.

    The entire sector rallied so viciously that it stretched quite far above the 10 DMA.

    All that happened today was just normal profit taking triggered by the entire sector hitting resistance and while getting a little ahead of itself. Nothing more.

  195. Jonas Haraldson

    So CME raised the performance bonds on what I believe is a COMEX options expiry day and at all time highs for gold and silver. Coincidence? I think not.

    And I just wonder how many small players panicked and sold their tanking PMs, which they had just bought on today’s gold breakout. And I bet that the big guns even knew of the margin hike in advance.

    Fortunately, I had a small sum of money left over from an abandoned trainwreck of a trade in QID, so that ended up in AGQ instead.

  196. Poly

    Welcome spoken Gary.

    Gavin (new sub?) posted a nice 4 hour chart that clearly showed this reversion to the trend. We’re still up sharply.

    However Gary what do you make of the S&P, holding up nicely? If it’s going to tail, it would need to do it very soon, no?

  197. Razvan

    we got a veronica/vuyyuiy buy signal today with the pits closing down and userx up. Maybe tomorrow will be happy Friday.

  198. TZ(4404)


    It is easy for you to jab any and all comments about manipulation in the metals. You do so from a safe distance – dismissive of all reasoning to the contrary.

    Yet you so do while never commiting yourself to a solid position.

    I will do that now by reversing the discussion.

    WHAT WOULD IT TAKE for YOU to agree or admit that there are reasons for people running the fiat monetary system to push gold and silver lower (or slow their rise). And that these actions have occurred and continue to occur.

    I believe that your response of ‘what would it take’ will highlight the untenuousness of your continuing “no way it makes ANY sense whatsoever” position (which goes against people as high up as Greenspan who actually RAN the system.)

  199. David

    Personally, I’m with Doc.

    I don’t think the S&P is going to tank.

    I think it’s going to ramp with the PMs. The PMs will be the star performers by a wide margin, however.

    Ultimately, I don’t care one way or the other, as I’m all PMs.

  200. TZ(4404)

    What are YOUR conditions?
    What would it take for YOU to agree?

    I suspect you will only be satistifed by a signed sworn statement in blood by either Bernanke or Blankfein and friends and 1000 witnesses corroborating with videotape.

    What would it take?
    What are YOUR criteria?
    What facts are currently missing for you to make that FINAL LINK?

  201. David


    I can answer that from my perspective.

    There’s no reason for the powers that be to be preoccupied with the gold price at this point. If they wanted to manipulate something, it would be the price of oil, not gold.

    Just because the price of gold is all-important to goldbugs doesn’t mean it’s all-important to everyone. Over the last 20 years it’s been at most a curiosity or novelty to most mainstream economists, including the ones at the Fed.

    I imagine that if you gave Ben Bernanke a truth serum and asked him if gold concerned him, he would say that it did, but only as a potential bubble whose bursting could threaten the system.

    Only in the years to come will the price of gold be seen by mainstream economists as an indictment of Central Bankers and their policies.

  202. Gary

    What would it take?

    Someone to give me a logical reason why the government or Fed gives a damn about the price of a shiny metal?

    I have yet to hear one. All I ever see is completely illogical nonsense for why a trade didn’t do what gold bugs think it should do.

    This is just starting to get ridiculous. Are you people really going to sink to the level where every time gold doesn’t do what you think it should it’s going to be because of manipulation?

    In case everyone hasn’t noticed gold is at new all time highs. Silver is at new highs, huge new highs.

    How in the hell can that be happening if the market is manipulated?

    If the government is going to f**k with something they need to do it to oil. That’s a commodity that matters. Gold is completely meaningless.

    BTW Greenspan’s comments concerning gold were made at a time when the dollar was backed by gold. If that were the case now then yes the Fed would have a case to manipulate price if it was possible (it isn’t)

  203. Gavin

    Re. Price manipulation; I think the key thing is that even if price manipulation occurs (and I am not saying it does), it would only be a short term effect.

    To suggest that prices can be manipulated in the long run is, I believe, just not true. Jim Rogers was asked about this recently and said it nonsense. I think he knows his stuff.

    Just follow the trend, which is up.

  204. David


    Needing to see the markets in moral terms — as a battle between good and evil — will cost you money.

    The goldbugs hold these conspiracy theories dear because they lost money day in and day out from 1980-2000.

    Instead of realizing that the secular bull market had ended, they just hung on, very much like our friend Beanie does in the stock market.

    They needed their conspiracy theories to keep them warm while they watched everyone else prosper in the stock market. They dreamed of the comeuppance that everyone else would get when gold finally returned to the center of the universe.

    These people will continue to hold on past $5000 gold and will give back all their gains in the years thereafter because they think that gold is some magical substance that is supposed to go up every minute of every day forever and ever.

    The goldbugs will cost you money. If you drink their Kool-Aid, you will not sell at $5000 or $6000 or whatever the top is. You will hold it forever and lose money for years and years and years like they did.

    If being part of a struggle between good and evil is psychologically more important to you than making money, great. You can pay for that experience.

    But don’t go around selling that nonsense to newcomers who have a chance to profit from this gold bull and improve their lives.

  205. Tudor

    I won’t address any particular manipulation of gold and silver by governments and central banks. But I will say I believe that central banks and governments care deeply about the shiny metals. Why else would they own them, and why else would CB’s around the world be rushing to buy as much gold as they can at the moment?

    The dollar and all fiat currencies are a confidence game, and the alternative currencies of gold and silver shine the light of truth on the malfeasance of those who enrich themselves by forcing fiat money down our throats. Governments have a vested interest in making sure nothing challenges their pretty pieces of paper. Legal tender laws are proof of that.

    I can certainly believe that governments and CB’s do attempt to manage the price appreciation of gold and silver. As long as the rise is discreet enough to not draw attention to their debasement of the currencies, they can continue without causing too much suspicion. But a violent explosion of PM prices would give rise to a search for reasons, and that would shine the light of truth on the ruling class.

  206. Poly

    Always funny to see the fear blogs run pictures of Blythe Masters and scream bloody murder EVERY SINGLE time Gold/Silver down. When it spikes up, it’s good old fashioned markets and supply/demand. ROFL.

  207. Hot Rod

    I think we need to define the word “manipulation.”

    In my opinion, do I think that someone (or a large institution) out there is placing large sell orders to crush the bid on the silver price, while they have buy orders in on many derivative products that get taken down at the same time (e.g. ETFs, miners, options, futures). Yes.

    They may “lose” some money if they cover at a higher price (driving price back up) but they made out like bandits going “long” on “derivatives.”

    Is this “manipulation?” Of course. Is it legal and within the rules? Yes.

    One of the things I don’t understand is the deal with JP Morgan having this massive short position.

    Based on my readings, they have had this short position for 2+ years.

    Ok. Don’t these future contracts have a delivery date? What does it mean they are short this much? Does it mean these contracts are leaps, 3 years out or are they next month contracts that they keep rolling over?

    How is it that we have month after month after month go by and their “short” position is still there? Logically they must be buying or rolling, correct?

    What I do have a problem is “if” JPM is breaking the rules. From what I understand they are in a class of traders that has to show some degree of offsetting long positions. Well if these long positions are OTC, other derivatives then I believe this is against the rules.

    Another theory is this…

    For every short they have, there has to be a long.


    What if:

    1) Goldman is the bank that is long (holding for treasury or FED) or

    2) Another entity is long

    In other words, they are selling short to themselves or an entity that won’t take delivery and will absorb the offsetting gains versus losses.

    What I do know is the whole thing is shady.

  208. pimaCanyon

    EW haters, move along, nothing to see here… 🙂

    Let’s assume that Gary is correct in saying we’re in the last phase of this C wave and we have at least one, maybe two daily cycle highs ahead of us.

    If that’s the way it plays out, the recent daily cycle low in EW terms could be labeled wave 2 of 5. Today’s pullback could be wave 2 of 3 of 5 (that is wave 1 of 3 of 5 topped at today’s high).

    That would mean we’d have waves 3 of 3 of 5 and 5 of 3 of 5 as new highs ahead of us in this daily cycle.

    The next daily cycle low would be wave 4 of 5. And the daily cycle that begins anew from the low would take us to its high, wave 5 of 5.

    Summary: a large wave 5 began at the IT low, wave 1 of that large wave topped at the top of the first daily cycle and wave 2 of that large wave bottomed at the recent daily cycle low on 3/15. So we’re now in wave 3 of that large 5th wave and each pullback we see will be just corrective wave of a lesser degree playing out.

    Note the following retracement levels of the move up from the daily cycle low on 3/15 to today’s high:

    GLD – slightly more than 38 percent at today’s low
    SLV – about 30 percent at today’s low
    HUI – not even 25 percent at today’s low
    GDXJ – 20 percent at today’s low
    SIL – about the same as GDXJ

    So from a retracement standpoint, today’s pullback is entirely within the bounds of what is normal (for a second wave of a third wave, assuming the move down today wave 2 of 3 of 5).

    So as SB (my twin brother) likes to say: “Everything is O.K.”

  209. Gary

    I’m going to make a guess and say that JPM probably has some of the smartest and best capitalized traders in the world working there. Does anyone really think that these people are unable to see the bull market in gold or silver?

    Does anyone really think these people would be stupid enough to trade against something like that?

    Do you think they are seriously trying to lose money? Because that’s what trading against a secular bull market is. A serious attempt to lose money. No professional trader worth his salt would ever do that.

    So what is the motivation for JPM to make the colossal mistake of trading against a bull market?

  210. David


    The “JP Morgan short position in silver” dates back to before I started investing in PMs in 2000.

    At that point it made some sense, because silver kept getting knocked down to $4 year in year out.

    At this point it’s absurd. Think about it. They would be down 1000% on that short position at this point, ten years later. Don’t you think they would have covered by now? Don’t you think they got the memo in 2001 when the big miners started dehedging? How stupid do you think they are?

    I can assure you that JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs are making money off the PM bull. They are long. If anything, they are driving this spike higher, not lower, sucking in as many retail investors as possible in order to leave them as bagholders later.

    They will make money coming and going, the way they always do.

  211. Shalom Bernanke

    Pima got that right, Everything is OK!

    The reason I’ve stepped a way from this board for awhile is to stay focused on the big picture. I really enjoy this place, but it can be a disservice at times when we all get tangled up is reasoning the last 1/2 move. Sometimes it’s good to step away for a few days, hence Gary’s advice to shut down the computers for a few weeks. I’ve taken his advice lately and life has been real good. 🙂

  212. Poly

    Couldn’t resist, bought a big stack of AGQ after hours @ $220 on margin. Margin balance went red, but nothing a little wire transfer can not fix in the morning.

    Weak hands got shaken today and new players are at the table. Wash rinse repeat. Wash rinse repeat. Wash rinse repeat

  213. TheBookGuy

    Does anyone remember the blog where Gary posted both the high and low historical dow to gold ratios? I meant to copy that and save it but didn’t

  214. DG

    Razvan: You have to wait for USERX to post today’s close, and Pima was right that it was down. Also, you can often tell beforehand because it’s a basket of miners, and they were weak today.

  215. Yash

    pima .. you can follow ew count of tony c for gold and silver .. its is preety good. its almost similar to what you have mentioned. he has this in last 5th wave of major 3. In 5th wave 1,2 are done and 3 is going on. with in 3 he has not marked 1,2 yet but that could be same as what you are saying. wave 3of 5 will daily cycle top with wave 4 of 5 as daily cycle low. then wave 5 of 5 will complete next daily cycle top which will be his major 3 top too. that means major 4 will start similar to D wave which he thinks in silver can go to 26. Then last major 5 will start of bull market which can be subdvided into multiple (at least 2) abcd of gary’s. by his oew he has gold target of minimum 3750 at major 5 top which will be bull market top.

  216. Beksachi

    Re: manipulation, here is an article that aligns with what Tudor was saying:

    Takeaway—> because gold is such a useless and shiny piece of metal, it’s absolute: if it rose dramatically in price, it would be hard for governments to explain; their money printing/double entry book keeping schemes would be revealed to the masses.

    Oil and food prices rising can be explained away by demand/supply/weather/political crisis…factors outside of their control.

    Having said that, however, I used to be a gold bug but am now more in middle path/pragmatic- all thanks to learning from Gary’s cycle knowledge. Will be cashing out at end of this c-wave.

  217. Gary

    I can assure you that if gold was at $2000 or $3000 or $4000 the public wouldn’t for a second all of a sudden wake up and say “oh my gosh there must be inflation and it must be the governments fault” “its time for a revolution”

    This argument is just doesn’t hold water. The public has been weened off gold as money for decades. Let’s face it we are never going back.

    And for what it’s worth a gold standard or gold as money has never stopped a country from debasing it’s currency.

    So to think that we would somehow cure our problem by backing the currency with gold is to not understand history.

  218. Rick 4779

    Since gold was at $300/oz in Jan, 2002 to today’s price of $1428, gold has risen dramatically in price, yet the Fed has not done very much “explaining” of anything. I don’t think they feel the need to explain it. How could they explain away this increase as anything other than inflation of the money supply, and the devaluation of the dollar?

  219. TheBookGuy


    It seem pretty easy to look at the Dow:Gold ratio and decide when to sell PM’s but not so easy to decide when the stock bull is over and when to start buying PM’s. Any input?

  220. audax

    Anyone have any insights/information on what’s happening with PZG?

    Technically, it seems to be stalling. (For example, aerospace-engineer-by-day, technician by night Merv in his latest report switched its ‘primary intermediate term rating’ from positive to negative.)

    Fundamentally, though, according to Techperson’s recent posts, it’s looking good – even if, like me, you don’t actually understand much of the terminology:
    (March 2): a killer NI 43-101 will be filed later this month; also they hold an Echo Bay property (evidently a good thing)
    (Match 23): an announcement on the assay report on the tailings pile at Sleeper will give them $70 million of silver; more on the NI 43-101 – if it shows the expected 5 million ounces, they’ll sell the project/whole company to CDC or one of the Mexican majors.

    Plus, further googling showed that the highly respected PM investor Friedberg has a large stake in the company. And that respected investment firm Stansberry list it as their top-performing open position, recommended by Dr Steve Sjuggerud, no less.

    So, the fundamentals sound good, even to a non-expert.

    Yet, I also came across a denial by the CEO that they had any intention of selling up from earlier this year.

    And the recent price action, with most companies in the PM sector on a tear, is … concerning.

    As a long-time lurker on this blog, I’m well aware of Gary’s warning against putting more than 5% of one’s portfolio into a single company.

    But it seems that in later stages of a C-wave, it’s outlying minors like PZG that have the potential to show the biggest gains.

    Anyway, I’ve let my position in this one creep up above the recommended limit – and would be grateful for any comments on PZG’s prospects.

  221. n1tro

    if jpm has a large unbacked short position and there is manipulation, it is because they are not allowed to have a large unbacked long position. its called the silver 7 rule or something like that and came as a result after the hunt brothers incident. google it. 🙂

  222. Rick 4779

    one of my favorite Gary quotes…

    “If we can do that (get to the next C Wave with prior profits intact) for two more ABCD cycles and a final parabolic bubble, each and every one of us should be able to walk away from this secular bull market financially free.”

  223. DG

    Raz: USERX doesn’t really “close.” It’s a mutual fund so they post the day’s NAV at 5:30 EST or so. It’s not that it hadn’t closed yet earlier today. It was that yesterday’s NAV and change was still showing.

  224. TheBookGuy

    I’m talking about following secular bull markets. Shifting from the general stock market ie the Dow to Gold and vice versa. It seems like 1:1 Gold Dow is when one would sell gold and move to Dow, but when would one sell Dow and move to Gold. How do we know? It isn’t a magical ratio, or does not seem that way to me. I don’t see a correlation to interest rates or P/E ratios. Just wondering what you would look for. I have no idea.

  225. David

    book guy,

    You don’t have to worry about when to shift back to gold from the Dow, because it’s not going to be necessary for another 30 years or so.

    You should be very wealthy by then 😉

  226. ease

    LOL Well, there went my diversification strategy… the only funds closed in the green today were the mutual funds, of which two of the 3 I sold today to put more funds in Gold/Silver funds. (the gains were piddly didn’t even cover my penalty).

  227. EricH

    CME raised margins on Silver future. It might have been the trigger that caused the afternoon weakness. This is the 4th time they raised it in the past 4 months. Didn’t stop it the past 3 times, why worry now?

  228. Gary

    I don’t dwell on a good or bad call if that’s what you are asking. I don’t necessarily buy into the concept that one can look at the past and prevent mistakes.

    Sure you can look back and say “my position size was too large and I wasn’t thinking clearly” That kind of mistake you can prevent.

    But one can’t look back at a trade that went south and say well when I see that setup I will go the other way next time. That just doesn’t work. The conditions are always changing in this business.

    You will never be able to sidestep every land mine, it’s just not possible in real time.

    The best we can do is try to keep the odds in our favor, control risk and when we make a mistake try to spot it quickly and correct it so it doesn’t hurt us too badly.

    This is one reason why I want no part of the stock market. I can’t figure out any way to get the odds on my side.

    By riding the gold bull I can get the big trend in my favor. If I make a timing mistake, which I invariably will, the trend will “fix it”.

  229. TheBookGuy

    Daily Moving Average

    Maybe. Seems to me like overall fundamentals is the key. A general feeling of easy credit, great markets, lower interest rates. I guess I was hoping it was something a little more concrete that someone who isn’t very perceptive could see. A lot of people I work with ask me a lot of investing questions. You help one person and they make a lot of money and word starts to get around.

  230. David

    Book Guy,

    The Dow:Gold ratio is useful for calling a top in gold, but it’s not really useful for calling a top in the stock market.

    It’s more of a general rule of thumb than a law. It corresponds to the commodity cycle, which holds that commodity bull markets and stock market bull markets run in opposing cycles. The reason for this is that stocks generally tend to do well in periods when commodities, particularly oil, are falling in price and poorly when they rise in price.

    So there’s a fundamental macroeconomic underpinning behind the idea.

    Luckily, when it reaches 1:1 or thereabouts, which won’t happen for several years, we can shift into stocks for the next 20 years or so.

  231. Josh

    A question for you experienced futures guys out there:

    When CME ups the margin requirement, does this often push over-levered players into liquidation?

    If so it seems like the perfect time for big players to run the stops.

  232. San Diego Jack

    What an excellent response to my inquiry. That is precisely the reason this “New Sub” jumped aboard.

    And I agree wholeheartedly, Hindsight is 20-20, and working it in realtime, while making money, is a very difficult exercise.

    Sometimes an exercise in futility!

  233. n1tro


    there are big players on both sides of the silver trade. higher margins will not hurt big players who know the price is going up and want to hold for delivery or just get paid a premium in lieu of delivery.

  234. David

    Book Guy,

    Here’s a post that explains the commodity cycle:

    “The rationale for this is simple. The price of physical goods are expenses for corporations as they are the raw materials to produce things. When the costs increase, profits decrease. This trend continues until it reaches an inflection point where it can not continue. Profits decrease and a retrenchment takes place. Demand decreases for raw materials and their prices fall.

    Then this trend continues until investments in the acquirement and production of raw materials is ignored. Mines take billions of dollars to develop and can take decades to ramp up production. Oil reserves likewise are expensive to find and exploit. As the current supplies are depleted, the prices of physical goods rises. It continues to rise until it reaches a tipping point when investment in the sector once again is lucrative. And the wheel turns again.”

  235. Yash

    I don’t rememeber tony c silver targets but gold targets are major wave 3 as 1700 or so and major 5 target 3750 .. where bull end. you can culculate rough silver targets using these may be

  236. Yash

    Also he has gold bull top in 2014 itself as he tracks it as 13 yr commodity cycle.

    Below is from his update (tony c) .. the last sentence is gary wave c and wave d in 2011. So that aligns properly. After that he has top in 2014 itself and I think gary thinks its later towards 2018.

    The 1967-1980 Gold bull market unfolded in time cycles with the following pattern in years: 3-3-3-2-2. This translates into important turning points in the following years: 1970-1973-1976-1978-1980. The current bull market appears to be following a slightly different time cycle pattern: 3-2-2-3-3, or 2004-2006-2008-2011-2014. As a result we expect Major wave 3 to top in 2011, and Major wave 4 to bottom in 2011 as well.

  237. GGuy


    about the cycle rading on S&P, try this one:

    RED= yearly bottom
    GREEN= intermediate bottom
    BLUE= daily cycle bottom.

    According to this, we are in the last intermediate of a yearly cycle.

    I espect a double top or a marginal new high @around 1350 in 15-25 days, then a multi week plunge to 1150 or lower.

  238. Josh

    Hey N1tro,

    I get that for sure. Not quite what I meant tho, sorry.

    If you’re long X contracts and you’ve got just the minimum maintenance cash to back it, does an increase in margin requirement force you to liquidate (or deposit of more cash)?

    In other words, does an increase in margin requirement create forced liquidation? I remember a similar thing back on 11/7/2010, and it also coincided with a large reversal day in silver, although at a very different point in the fall rally and cycle count.

  239. Gary

    The only problem is I’ve never heard of a daily cycle that is only 14 days long. The average is 30-40 and even that has stretched to 60 because of QE.

    The only way the counts really “work” is for Feb 24 as the last daily cycle and the current cycle now being left translated.

    The yearly cycle low would then come just about right on time in early May.

  240. TheBookGuy

    Thank you, I really appreciate your detailed input. I would say I have a decent handle on it myself. I am trying to think of a way to show people when to enter and exit each market. I guess their is no easy way for lazy investors.

    I have a fitness website and one of my core beliefs is that everyone should study two things. Health and Investing. I feel that they are the two most valuable things in life and that no one will care about them more than you.

    I like to give people solid, easy to follow, easy to understand advice. I sort of look at it like I’m teaching a single mom who works 10 hour days and cooks and cleans and takes care of the kids. She needs me to tell her what to do when this…

    I think I can find a way to describe it though. Basically when your taxi driver tells you his gold stocks, look at selling. When your taxi driver thinks the stock market will never go down look to sell general equities…

    I’ll keep looking at it.

  241. ALEX


    Tried quickly catching up, but going to skip for now. I looked at charts and all looks fairly good, but it appears riding it ‘real time’ was a bit uneasy…in that case.

    GARY- nice report tonight to neutralize the uneasy blog.

    DAVID gave a nice reply to GPL.
    I have owned other miners that have done this, its a pure business investment move many times.
    You hear their reports of “DRILL TEST” shows high grade silver over XXX area of property, XXX deep.
    (WE all applaud), but they now have to go get it, so earnings they announce , “We will increase production by 500,000 ounces nxt yr” , (again we all applaud).
    Now they sell 1 million shares for $5 million to buy new equipment, permits, drills, hire more miners , and we SELL …the JERKS are screwing with us!! hehe

    As David implied, If they raised 5 million when the stock was $1 , they would have to sell 5 million shares!!- today they sold a bit over 1 million shares, “Progress Has No Patience” in the business world. 🙂

    At the open on a 1 day chart , 1 million sold …it bounced, now retested at end of day. May go fill the gap at $4.10 , I may buy more 🙂

    Goodnight, going out.

  242. David

    Book guy,

    The taxi driver thing is nice, but it doesn’t work well in practice. People don’t understand how long the cycles are. I’ve had people say everyone’s bearish on real estate, so that’s where I should invest, without realizing that real estate is going to be impaired for 20 years.

    You are never going to come up with a quick rule of thumb for people, because they have to understand the fundamentals. Otherwise they won’t stick to the program.

  243. n1tro

    i cant speak for the big boys but when they increase the margins, it just gets taken out of my account after 5pm est. i’m not using my full 200x leverage so it doesnt affect me or knock me out. i doubt the big players are leveraged to the point that it would knock them out rather they would unload because they rather not pay the carrying cost for whatever reason

  244. Jonas Haraldson

    Just for the record: I have a bet with Gary about the alleged manipulation. The win critera is the legal outcome of the ongoing class action suits against JPM and HSBC for manipulation. Conviction – I win a beer. No conviction – I’ll buy Gary a beer. I guess it’s a tad optimistic to expect a resolution of the bet before the Switzerland trip, but I keep my fingers crossed. 🙂

    Meanwhile, my strongest “evidence” are the following:

    Exhibit A: An official statement issued by the CFTC and written by one of their commissioners. He says:

    “I believe that there have been repeated attempts to influence prices in the silver markets. There have been fraudulent efforts to persuade and deviously control that price. Based on what I have been told by members of the public, and reviewed in publicly available documents, I believe violations to the Commodity Exchange Act (CEA) have taken place in silver markets and that any such violation of the law in this regard should be prosecuted.”

    Exhibit B: A non-refutable analysis of many year’s worth of intraday gold price movements that show beyond a shadow of a doubt that the price drops in a statistcally determined way for the London AM and especially PM gold fix.

    Why do I bother about this since we make a lot of money anyway? Just curiosity and a certain craving for justice and fairness to prevail.

    Just a few more tidbits:

    JPM actually inherited the massive short position from Bear Stearn, when they took over their assets.

    As I interpret the situation, the increasing access to information via the internet gradually makes the manipulation harder. As more and more people read and are clued in on the ongoing fiat currency debasement, the once profitable scare tactics are becoming difficult to continue. Too many investors simply call the bluff and buy the dips.

    So JPM are actually in the process of unwinding their short position, even though it’s slow work, since they don’t want to send the price straight into orbit.

  245. GGuy


    This was not a daily cycle. It happens sometimes (it’s not so rare) that an intermediate cycle is made by 2 daily cycles and then a half daily cycle after them.

    I have intermediate stats from years and the IT cycle can last from 61-62 to 86-88 days.

    62-64 days would be a straight 2_daily_cycles cycle intermediate.

    Then you can have a quarter, half or another full daily cycle.

    A full 3_daily_cycles intermediate last usually about 86 days.

  246. Jonas Haraldson

    Hm, no luck with the links above. Trying again:

    href=”” target=”CFTC”


  247. Sasa

    I find it a bit schizophrenic when every fall in price is “blythe’s” fault and a bit naive on the opposite side when any ‘manipulation’ is cathegorically brushed aside as you tin foil fool you.

    Dunno if it’s just me but some pretty remarkable things came up to the surface in the world. Like one very smart guy running a bit of a ponzi, which blew up at about 65 BILLION dollars. He was well respected at some point, something like chairman of NASDAQ stock market.

    Take movies as a ballpark for what general public even can logically process. In movies in 80ties, they stole $100k from bank. In 90ties they stole a million from a bank. Now if they make a really over the top mission impossible, they’ll go and steal maybe 200million dollars. This guy in REAL WORLD ripped 65 billion.

    Real world is nastier than general public can or will imagine. Either it’s hidden from you or if it’s in plain sight it’s so repulsive you will not be able to grasp the reality of it.

    So JPMorgan has some of the smartest traders? I’m sure they have and are earning money on PM bull.

    Just like all the banks were making a killing on the last bull called housing bubble – right up until late 2008 when all of a sudden all the banks needed billions of dollars of bailout or they’d be flat out bankrupt?

    And then they turn around and hand out billions of bonuses. WTF.

    So name of the game is that those in powerful positions will do everything, and i mean everything to remain powerful and gain more power. There are absolutely no ethics today. If you see any sign of ethics, it’s just used as instrument to gain more power. And there’s no risk to “losses” when banks trade. If the means are achieved, that’s all that matters, because money doesnt cost them anything.

    And I’m sure an empire like USA must have some of the top of the top people having figured out how monetary policy will turn out in the end. People here think JPmorgan has almighty smart traders and Bernanke who’s controling USA’s money is a complete looney? Really? I agree, at 1,6 trillion deficit a year it doesnt look good, half of that bought by USA itself. It will end in a crash but i think it’s pretty much a planned way out of huge debt. Doesnt make sense otherwise.

    And as far as manipulation question goes. IF anyone in the world can get more power by hitting on price of gold – then it’s being done. And if it’s in the interest of the banking sector – then the potential losses dont matter, because money doesnt cost anything.

    Pff, hehehe, hell.. Even two brothers at some point in history manipulated price of silver, imagine that, two guys manipulated silver market! Maybe today there’s two guys hitting the price of silver down? Let alone JPM almighty with unlimited funding. Things are many times unimaginable until they’re uncovered, then they’re quickly accepted as common sense.

    In the end it doesnt matter. Stock market is what it is, there’s always a way to profit from it. If it’s manipulated, then trade manipulation and be happy.


  248. Gary

    During the last bull market I heard the manipulation conspiracy used in the energy markets. Whenever oil went down it was always because some cartel took it down because as everyone knew we were at peak oil and the fundamentals prevented oil from dropping. So if it did then it had to be a managed take down.

    Of course when oil went up then it was because of speculators.

    This need to blame someone for why things don’t do what one expects seems to be universal in all markets.

    Heck I suppose there’s a cotton cartel that only the cotton traders know about too.

  249. David

    There’s no question that manipulation exists. The silver rally we are all enjoying right now was brought to you by the manipulation of dozens of hedge funds and god knows who else working in concert. But there is far more money to be made marking silver up than down.

    What is naive is the idea that were it not for manipulation, gold and silver would go up in a perfectly straight line for all eternity.

  250. Sasa

    Also i was thinking…

    Would it be a gain or loss if people on this blog would have a proper forum where to discuss? Locked and available only to SMT members for instance. This blog comments system is a bit …. but it does have it’s plus sides as well.

    Just an idea to maybe get the ball rolling and someone can put it up on the web in the end if Gary and enough people find it an improvement to SMT.


  251. fat boy

    I would not have the energy to look at two blogs and do my day job
    big achievement of the day for me was entering the hard stops at last

  252. Sicuro

    Gary, maybe you should take this blog private and make it for subscribers only. There are way too many spammers. Only paying customers should be able to have access to your advice. Furthermore, you’ll have more time to focus your time on your newsletter and only answer paying customer emails.

  253. Hot Rod

    I agree 100%. Private blog for subscribers with Gary’s attention when he’s available.

    The purpose here is for Gary to increase subscriber base with no free lunches.

    Gary does a tremendous service posting free content as well as staying active for all.

    Quality over quantity, let’s not take advantage or burn him out.

  254. n1tro

    i’m sure a private blog has crossed gary’s mind but i bet a burrito he wants x amount of subscribers before it be worthwhile for him to privatize.

  255. pimaCanyon


    Good luck with you new AGQ position. Very gutsy.

    I see the possibility of the pullback extending to somewhere between 35.60 and 36.47 on the May Silver futures contract. Doesn’t have to go that low–hell, it could rocket higher tomorrow–but if the pullback continues, that range should hold it.

  256. DG

    Dobbs: Are you serious or joking? I have reviews from some of the top trainers in the United States. Most of what I say has been clinically proven. Are you serious?

  257. Shalom Bernanke

    I haven’t bought the book yet but appreciate others’ reviews even when scathing.

    But back to metals, I think the biggest mistake any of us will make is selling too early. In 20 years I’ve only seen markets like this a few times. Hold tight and buy dips!

  258. Bob loves Hawaii

    Dobbs, and you felt compelled to try and embarrass DG publicly. why?

    Common decency in the least would be to seek him out on his website and offer your constructive criticism, privately.

    Maybe he can do a chapter in his next boomk on schmucks, he already has a subject matter expert, you.

  259. Shalom Bernanke

    With regard to e-mailing Gary with questions, just about everything is answered b/t the blog comments and nightly reports. It would be good to keep email to a minimum, other than to request Gary cover a topic in his report so he can share with more subs. Anything other than that is an energy drain and unnecessary, IMO.

  260. Hot Rod

    Hopefully I don’t jinx it, but we have momentum on our side for what I call the “Friday Effect.”

    The past 8 Friday’s have been positive gainers for Silver and in many cases huge gains. (ok, there were 2 days that were essentially “flat”, but still a solid trend)

    Contrary to some of the posts and analysis today I was very pleased with the results.

    First of all, the “raid” came after silver was already up big, bringing it down to “flat” range, still closing over $37 (which in itself was huge). Sure beats a raid coming when it is flat or already down a bit.

    I’ll take up days of 6% and down days of 1% any day of the week.

    Before I got on board with Gary’s work I had a tendency to always feel silver was “hanging by a thread” and “fragile” and could get taken out at any given time, even though I was riding the long side up. Sort of a “once bitten twice shy” tendency because of a badly mistimed entry when I first got into the game.

    Over the past month this is dissipating in fact it is quite the opposite. I truly have confidence that momentum is there to keep going (with pauses).

  261. DG

    Thanks, guys, but no need at all to come to my defense The fact that a crank doesn’t like it is of no concern to me. I have trained 22,000 people and have literally hundreds of letters from people saying that it has changed them for the better. I even talked down a suicide once, which was of course very gratifying. I have to admit that when we do the program the attendance is voluntary. I suppose if someone had no desire to change or examine his own motives for behavior, he’d find it threatening and need to trash it. I can’t imagine why such a person would buy it, though. If you are closed why read a book about how to change yourself? Of course he might think he’s already perfect.

    Dobbs: What in it was “rubbish.” I can easily defend every sentence in it. I’d love to know what you reject. Boring is up to you, but rubbish sounds like an objective claim. It’s like the guys who yell “Dow 30,000!” with no reasoning or evidence, eh?

  262. Shalom Bernanke

    And the best part, hotrod, is that it doesn’t even matter if Friday is up or not, longs are going to make a lot of money if they can hold a few weeks. I even doubt I’ll sell all my miners at the end of the C-wave, will probably just do some pruning.

  263. Jayhawk

    I sold my GPL even though I’m sure it will be fine. It only was a 6% position and I moved that $ to SLW. SLW, AGQ and AG are my big three…I want to riding proven winners for the next month or so. No time to waste. Down the road, will revisit GPL after the dreading D wave.

    My last remaining IRA is one account I’ve traded aggressively and with good results this year. Up 100% since Jan in Just AGQ, SLW and SLW calls. I sold my SLW stock early today and moved 100% of that capital in May SLW calls. Going for a home run here with a pretty hefty chunk. Taking my shot.

  264. Veronica

    Pima, I can’t tell you how my system works:) I’m not too concerned at all about the action in gold yet as my system’s stop is a bit south of here. I believe the move this past summer started out with a breakout that was initially sold into.Thge system is saying to be patient here, much like Gary is saying also.

  265. Brian

    Jayhawk, That is just fascinating to me considering last week or so you were ready to throw in the towel and walk away. WOW.

  266. Jayhawk


    I was in a horrible mood last week and even though the action was frustrating me, I never said I was selling or hedging anything. I actually added SLV and SLW calls last week along with the GPL position.

    I can tell you, once the SPX gets an official weekly swing low in I will feel much more confident with the wind at our backs. I don’t like the odds of having a blow off phase in the face of an overall market crash.

    I still think the Japan mess & carry trade may impact things…I decided that the timing could actually work in our scenario fueling a D-wave and harder core market correction last Spring.

  267. DG

    Book Guy: Sort of. It’s of course my own style, but the point is we do not appreciate how much our attitudes affect everything we do. The greatest trading psychologist ever (Ed Seykota) said “You always get exactly what you want from the financial markets.” If that is true—and I believe it is— you need to get honest about your attitudes that are holding you back if you are not trading as you’d like to. Many people have no interest or desire to do this and such people should not waste time with Tony Robbins or my book.

  268. TheBookGuy

    Sounds like my kind of book. I’m looking forward to the read. I’m exactly where I want to be in life. If I weren’t I’d do something about it! That motivates me to do something about it.

  269. TheBookGuy

    I’d just like to comment that this board has some really great people and it is a great place to hang out. I used to read several financial sources a day constantly searching for more. I have found since becoming a sub of Gary’s that I have relaxed and not felt the need to constantly “be on top of it.” I’ve read book after book on a few subjects, investing being one of them and I still want to learn but I don’t feel like I have to, I can do it out of pure pleasure now.

  270. Beksachi

    Gary said:

    “I can assure you that if gold was at $2000 or $3000 or $4000 the public wouldn’t for a second all of a sudden wake up and say “oh my gosh there must be inflation and it must be the governments fault” “its time for a revolution”

    I disagree!! Signs of inflation are currently managed by either:

    1) Externalizing or “not our fault” (i.e. saying it’s supply/demand/mid east crisis)

    2) Stealth inflation (falsified government statistics, smaller packaging (check out your costco paper towels recently, inferior ingredients (watch what you eat!), lower quality of components or services)

    If gold were allowed to rocket up, even the most detached “joesixpack” and “lady gagaed” Mtv drone would be forced to perk up and ask “what is going on”?

    The game would be over instantly and there would be revolution!

    Gary said:
    “During the last bull market I heard the manipulation conspiracy used in the energy markets. Whenever oil went down it was always because some cartel took it down because as everyone knew we were at peak oil and the fundamentals prevented oil from dropping. So if it did then it had to be a managed take down”.

    This is indeed an interesting perspective from Gary; I was not following the energy market at the time.

    Bottom line—–> I’m middle of road and won’t get caught up in the manipulation theory either. All I care about is pragmatism and try to exit this C-wave effectively, and play the next few A and C waves with the forum here.

    Speaking of cycles and human emotions, there is good book “The Fourth Turning” by Neil Strauss which outlines the impact of cycles and generational US history. According to their work, we entered the “winter” or 4 th turning in 2000 onwards- we can expect profound and revolutionary changes soon in the US once a critical marker or event occurs.
    (By the way, good luck waiting for that event, I have been waiting 10 years and still waiting…)

    Whatever transformation the US undergoes, I agree with Gary that we may not go back to a gold backed system- indeed, it will have to an entirely new paradigm.

    Most on this forum will agree that intuitively the status quo in the US does not “feel right”….something is going to have to give.

  271. don


    aren’t you also a conspiracy theorist where you blame QE2 if YOUR analysis for stock market goes wrong? (as opposed to simply accepting that I was DEAD WRONG) I am saying this NOT because I betted money on your analysis but because I know other cycle analyst like Doc and Tim Wood (original man behind cycles quantitative research) who were anticipating the low in stock market the moment you were talking about the EXTREMELY LEFT TRANSLCATED cycle?

    I have many thing to say..will post later.

  272. Paul

    Gary has said he doesn’t trade the stock market. His bread and butter is PM. If you ended up on the wrong side of a trade its your own fault, own up. Gary has made me 50% since Jan 30 investing in PM and miners. Not too shabby ehh!

  273. Sasa

    Regarding my forum idea.

    I didnt think of it as another blog, but rather proper forum with threads as a way to make SMT running easier for Gary, not having more work.

    Pros i can see are that certain questions that come up again and again on this “endless” 1 thread blog would be as separate threads on forum. Once question is asked, debated and hopefully answered, thread is there to see for others to find answers without more questions to Gary. It could relieve some of emails sent i guess… dunno what people email.

    Certain individuals like vuvvy could post his buy/sell signals in his thread. Alex could discuss his newest junior plays in his own thread, ‘lottery ticket’ discussion, etc… Conspiracists could debate conspiracy on their own and Gary doesnt even need to open that one up 🙂

    Con i see is that threads/debates can get out of hand, ‘fights’ can start and unmanageble for Gary to have an overview in the end, overhead with verified registration process against subscription, etc., being more work for him than keeping up current setup of comment blog + emails. Also i guess current public comment blog would be left more to ‘flap in the wind’ and would not act as a great subscription promotion that it is now.

  274. ease

    DG, I am about half way through your book, however I can already understand why Dobbs doesn’t understand your work. You have to be able to have an open mind to be able to digest ideas beyond your limited perceptions. His reponse shows he is choosing to block his capability to learn something beyond his own comprehension.
    A change in attitude will open many doors and opportunties otherwise closed. …Dobbs review of your book simply spoke for itself. He is incapable at this time of learning new ideas. He is obviously in some pain, however not enough to make any changes in his own perceptions. You must have hit a nerve. Keep up the good work!

  275. ease

    Sasa, good idea on eliminating frequest questions to have a link to most common questions. We could just all come up with a list we have seen to help Gary and ourselves to post. It would just be a link for subs. Less of his sub ideas would be divulged also but a leader to getting new subs.

  276. daniele

    sasa, i think the real problem is the huge and absurd amount of email send to gary, not post on the blog.Why on earth should i sent an email to try to discuss with gary about my personal thought about manipulation?It’s absurd.Mailing to gary just for important and private requests.Nothings else.Ego is a danger for everyone here.IMO
    I agree with SB. 🙂

  277. ease

    Beksachi, From what I have read, we will just evolve into a world wide global unit of currency. Makes sense, since we are already a global economy. Not right away, but eventually once the policitians fail to find any other way to resolve the differences the world will unite (or most of the world will when it comes to monetary unit of trade).

  278. don


    That question was for Gary and not to his devotee to glorify their god even if he try to wraps the things around..and ehh! read my comment again..i hv not betted on Gary’s market analysis..cos i know he is calling for DOOM since Jan 2011..and he will be right one day .. till then he needs devotees like you and wrapers like QE2 to blame onto something else…

    may be its a business tactics or ego induced due to god status

  279. ease

    Wow Gary, you have now been categorized: God like status. Keep up the great work! I am impressed by all the adulation you receive, even by those who don’t agree with you. You must be doing something right we can all learn from.

  280. Paul

    Gary has so many haters. That’s when you know you are doing something RIGHT. I’m going to get worried when there are no more haters around here.

  281. don

    and i have the exact opposite impression…for one simple query there are immediate replies from devotees touting Gary (so far I can see two of them for one query)…and thats why i take Gary’s analysis not too seriously nowdays..

    Its unfortunate for one simple query/question/doubt to the master , Gary’s devotees immediately throwing reply’s assuming that I hate Gary…why should i hate him..he has full right to be wrong..but at the same time he needs to admit it and not wrap it in QE2

  282. Gary

    Here is my expectation. I think a daily cycle bottomed on Feb. 24th. I think we are now in a left translated cycle that if it bottoms in the normal duration will end sometime around early May.

    Until the market makes a new high my cycle count is not wrong as you would like to suggest.

    The market is still clearly making lower lows and lower highs. It’s still in a down trend at this point.

    There is no question that QE is influencing stock market cycles. They are stretching far beyond what used to be normal durations. 40-60 days is now the norm when it used to be 30-40 days.

    I’m not making excuses I’m just stating a fact.

    The way I count cycles I need to see something obvious. I don’t pick a one day decline and decide that constitutes a daily cycle low just because I can make it fit in an expected timing band.

    Now the recent correction is deep enough that it looks like an intermediate level correction and if the market does continue higher and make a new high I will certainly mark it as an intermediate low.

    I’m just not convinced that the correction is over yet because it would require the last daily cycle to have only run 14 days and I’ve never seen a 14 day cycle.

    So you are jumping the gun by a long ways to say that I am wrong on my cycle count at this point. The market hasn’t even broken the pattern of lower lows and lower highs yet.

  283. Gallo

    DG, Read on Amazon the reviews of your book. All excellent. I looked into the book through the Amazon web site and it randomly brought me to a chapter on the benefical effects of meditation. I recently attended a mens Catholic retreat which was conducted by a completely deaf priest out of Rochester. He said meditation changed the way he was able to handle/accept his daily experiences. Being deaf was/is quite a challenge for him especially growing up. One of the most gentle humble and sincere people I’ve ever met. And since he spoke from the heart, nothing rehearsed, he was very articulate which quite frankly I didn’t expect.(Preconceived notions I suppose). All we did was meditate and discuss bible passages for three days. It was very refreshing. I thought it was interesting how us Catholics are apparently huge advocates of this form of prayer.

  284. PST

    I never understand why people feel the need to troll blogs and give their negative opinions. If you disagree, that’s fine. In fact, having a good debate makes for a more robust blog. But if you’re just coming on to try to discredit Gary’s work, then I don’t think people here want to hear it.

    Here’s an idea, if you don’t like Gary’s analysis, don’t read it. Find someone who’s analysis that you do like and go there instead. Or try doing your own and see if your hit rate is 100%. I agree with Gary though, it’s premature to make any conclusions. Also, Gary’s always given the disclaimer that he’d stay away from equities right now because QE has distorted the cycles.

    And in terms of people elevating Gary to god status, it’s simply people that he’s helped make money in the past coming to his defense. Whether or not he’s always right or wrong, he’s certainly helped alot of people make money, myself included. Again, if you don’t find him helpful, well…go find another source.

  285. TommyD

    Thanks for the discussion about your book, between you and Gallo.

    I ordered it this morning. I look forward to reading it. I could use the help.


  286. Aaron

    Its a waiting game now…we will just have to wait for the Dollar to break… This should start on Tuesday. 76.25 should hold.

  287. Aaron

    Eamonn, its just a guess…Im assuming that we wont get much action in gold or silver on Monday due to options expiration. Even if the dollar was to break down on Monday, the effect on the PMs would be controlled.

  288. Gary

    I’m sure a lot of short term traders unloaded PM positions yesterday to wait and see if the HUI could breakout of the consolidation.

  289. Aaron

    Eamonn thats rubbish. Ive heard that excuse a thousand times. No hedge fund dumps that many contracts at market knowing that it would affect the price by 20 dollars, thats just stupid and careless. As a matter of fact thats against CFTC (a joke) regulations.
    Majjor beat downs like yesterday in such a short time frame are common, and can only be achieved my massive dumping of contracts at market price, overwhelming the buy orders. Volume charts on these wiggles are very telling.

  290. jeff

    So gold tested the high twice, if we test it again and fail will that mean a sideways consolidation for the summer?

  291. Eamonn

    Hi Aaron. Frankly I’m a novice at finance and how these things work. I joined here about a few weeks ago and reading this blog I’m trying to adsorb as much as I can but I am currently overloaded. However, I try to understand and research as much as I can and I am hoping with the passage of time (maybe years) I will be able to “talk to talk”. Its very valuable education

  292. Aaron

    Eamonn, this is a great blog with lots of good info from lots of experienced folks. Good luck with the learning, its a never ending process.

  293. Bob loves Hawaii

    Aaron, actually Eamon is right, but not for conspiracy reasons, hedge funds are rolling contracts and they sold yesterday so they won’t have to stand for delivery and will book profits for the month/quarter, then reestablish next week in the next liquid contract. The cash market ETFs move in sympathy as they are deriviatives.

  294. Gary

    I wouldn’t make the mistake of thinking some technical rule is going to govern the price of gold.

    If the dollar collapses down into it’s three year cycle low then gold is going to rocket higher. It really has no bearing on how many times this or that level gets tested.

    I know it’s hard to do but to make the big bucks you simply can’t put too much faith in charts.

  295. DG

    AtEase: That’s exactly right. Everyone carries some pain or frustration in some way or another. Some people deny it (“Are you kidding. I’m too macho to have feelings or pain!!”) Those people cannot be helped and the pain will stay until it is painful enough to deal with, or they just live pretending it is not there. Our overwhelming tendency is to blame the situation for our frustration (“If only he would stop doing that I’d be fine.”) The problem with that is you become a slave to that guy and his rude behavior. Your well being is dictated by hiss behavior every day. Wouldn’t it be nice if you could stop minding? Not pretending not to mind, not stuffing the annoyance, but actually having it no longer bother you? Then you can—with a clear mind—decide whether to fight the guy, avoid him or just ignore him, without feeling the compulsion to do it because you just cant stand it. Think of how much more effective you’d be at everything if you could make clear rational decisions instead of reacting. Dobbs is clearly not able to do this and takes comfort in blaming others for things he doesn’t like (“Your book is rubbish!). How does writing that help him other than to vent his own annoyance? You went to a Catholic retreat. Pray for him! Anyway, this is a financial blog. Enough of this…

  296. pimaCanyon

    Thanks, Veronica. (I knew you wouldn’t be able to divulge system details, but was just wondering whether it looks at intraday data or just daily… don’t answer that! Glad to hear it’s still long 🙂

  297. PST

    Does yesterday’s big intra-day reversal signal any short term weakness in the price of gold and silver or do you ignore moves like these?

  298. DG

    PST: Gary trades off the cycles and sentiment. Tape patterns like the reversal are almost always ignored. If a cycle bottom were due soon it might possibly matter a little, but as one is not due it is just noise.

  299. CMT

    DG: I bought your book, but frankly haven’t looked at it yet. After reading your post above though, I put it in my bag for my upcoming trip right next to my Epictetus!

  300. Eamonn

    DG, you sound like you know what you are talking about. Being to ignore and not react to irritating people is an important skill in life

  301. Aaron

    Bob, the only place that the price of gold and silver matters is futures. Rolling is common, its never done is a sudden fashion. At tims when you roll, you can see the rpice fluctuate too (depending on your size), yet if the quantity is too large they make sure they space it out. This is careless stuff, and considered market manipulation by the CFTC, and investigations are started (yet never finished, like silver in 2008…its still ongoing!). There are exceptions to the rule though, and thats who the manipulation crew have the beef with.

  302. pimaCanyon


    Gary calling for DOOM? Where has he said that? I believe YOU are interpreting his calls as DOOM, no? (If stocks head south and you stay invested in the stock market, that would feel like DOOM to you, right?)

    Gary’s calls are pretty clear. How you interpret them is your own doing.

    (Many well known and successful market analysts have said that the US stock market began a bear market in 2000 that will last 15 to 30 years, so Gary is not alone in his call for stocks to head south again.)

  303. Bob loves Hawaii

    Aaron, I am talking about the futres and if you look at silver on the morning of delivery commitment you see the same waterfall pattern. If you knew people needed to get out wouldn’t you pile on when you see volume or force the issue to make weak hands cover?

  304. thedocument

    I suppose I am a conspiracy theorist, as well, since I believe the Fed’s counterfeiting programs are driving gold price higher 🙂

    Seriously, people. There is a big difference between conspiracy and simply analyzing the potential results of people’s behavior.

  305. The Angry Hippie

    Easy with those weakness wishes, SB. I got a little excited and added a few (too many?) shares of SLW before I should have. Buying dips is fun and all but lets get on with this orgy Gary has been talking about. I’m here for the party!

  306. Poly

    Buying on weakness is the way to go, but should be limited to around cycle lows. Once a cycle is off to the races and clearly galloping, buying on weakness normally means “buying higher”, IMO. Buy the bulk and the IT lows and stay put. Sure if there is an unexpected 1-2 day blip, buy it up.

  307. Aaron

    Bob, I know what you are pointing to, yet its a fact that no pattern in markets last forever, these patterns correct themselves over time, because traders see the pattern and beat it out by trading it. The only time these patterns dont change is when a trader is fundamentally blocked from participating, and that block in this case is position size.
    It seems to me that if you replace Gary’s ‘big money’ with ‘JPM’, then you can technically claim that Gary believes in manipulation, and thus a tin foil hat gold bug 😉
    PS. I disagree that short term manipulations have no long term effects. Technical damage can sway money away thus altering the intensity of the move.

  308. Gary

    Big money doesn’t trade based on charts. The only money getting “knocked out” by meaningless technicals are emotional retail traders.

    case in point the reversal candle may very well turn out to be nothing. Money that’s driven by value or cycles or sentiment will buy the dip.

    Retail traders trying to trade base don charts will lose their shares to smart money.

  309. DG

    I think there is a difference between “Big Money” and “manipulation.” Manipulation is a concerted, over-time, conscious process of changing the price of an item for the sake of changing the price. Heck, I’ve manipulated—when I clean up the offering on a stock two or three times in a row to see if I can get it running—but that is not over time. If Big Money gets together and says “Hey, let’s keep this price down by shorting” and they do this often and over time I’d call that manipulation. Anything else is just them doing their thing. Of course they affect prices but that’s not conscious manipulation over time. One could argue the Fed is manipulating the stock market to keep it up, but they are not buying and selling. They are juts providing liquidity. JPM would have to be fools to be “manipulating” silver prices because silver has skyrocketed and they’d be broke with their “brilliant” strategy by now.

  310. fat boy

    I don,t think anyone here follows blindly and you are correct Gary gets things wrong.
    He also gets things right and builds in protection when he is wrong for his subs. The basic plan is working and the plan is protected. And there is still risk! Any idiot knows that.

    Frankly I am here to make money and welcome contrarian views backed with debate to keep everyone on their toes. Gary and the people here are helping me make a s**t pile of money and with some protection built in.

    Please Just read and debate as senseless criticism with no
    pay day is just white noise and we take the eye off the ball. If you have more to offer than Gary uses qe2 as an excuse then get stuck in.

  311. ALEX

    regarding DON

    I read your original question (since it got so much attention). I am thinking he initially wasnt really trying to attack Gary , until everyone else came to garys defense.

    If you re-read the post “GET OUT”, warning everyone that your parent retirement fund should be pulled out of the markets and so on , one could see that as a ‘doom’ call, while another views it as a strong recommendation.

    THEN , I think Don must be a subscriber, because he was referring to what Gary said in last nights post…that the feds QE2 is affecting cycles.

    So Dons origional post was somewhat like….Gary, you dont believe in ‘Gold market manipulation’, until QE2 affects your cycle timing (which was mentioned in the report last night).

    I’m going to be ‘devils advocate’ here- I read Dons question as trying to tell Gary…”if you believe the fed QE2 affects your cycle count, then why not believe manipulation in Gold market.

    Right or wrong, I saw it as less ‘attacking’ , until he was criticized…then he got a bit edgy. Just my thoughts…I COULD BE WRONG-but I origionally read it that way ,since earlier discussion was ‘Gold market manipulation’.

    Please dont shoot the messenger (me) 🙂

  312. ALEX


    Did I say Gary said get your parents retirement out…SORRY!! I meant thats what everyone posted they did!


  313. Hot Rod

    Nice swing low on the 30 minute silver chart. Maybe we can make a run back up for $38.

    Daily/Weekly close over $38 would be ginormous.

  314. DG

    I believe a swing low means nothing unless it is during the tim ing band for a cycle low. There are swing lows every week in items that are meaningless. When trying to spot a cycle bottom the SL is a good way of saying “That was it. Time to buy”

  315. Gary

    Charts are last in the chain. I start with the big picture, secular bull market. I only want to trade in the direction of the secular trend.

    Then I determine where we are in the intermediate cycle. Then the daily cycle. I confirm with sentiment.

    Finally I use charts to try and time entries or exits if it’s getting late in an intermediate cycle. Mostly by focusing on swings once we are in the timing band for a turn.

    I will use chart patterns and such if they confirm the big picture, cycles and sentiment.

    I would never go against those three major tools based on anything as insignificant as a possible reversal candle or vague wedge pattern etc.

  316. sophia


    I have a question for you ( and whoever Alex or Poly or others) …
    When time comes and the stupid stock market will be too high for its sake, would you advice to sell futures or buy SDS Etfs?
    Thanks for your advice…


    I like your approach re. big picture followed by a narrower view..That is great to keep you sane and avoid the daily wiggles…I am learning…Even if like Peter yesterday, I am poorer than I was last autumn because I shorted the stock market!!!

  317. ALEX


    Also in my past experience with the cup/handle pattern , the volume on the handle needs to dry up (less sellers) and then, when it breaks above the cup, it needs much larger volume to fully reach the price projection.

    If volume out of that handle is weak, it comes straight back down and retests the cup or falls apart( then the victim says, “those cup/handle formations arent really reliable 🙂

  318. Gary

    BTW even if the market can make a new high I would still suggest one get money out of general stock funds in 401K’s. We’ve had an almost 100% rally in two years. The stock market is still in a secular bear market.

    The Fed’s policies are going to create bigger problems. It’s just not possible to cure a problem of too much dept and too much consumption with more debt and more spending.

    Just like the last attempt failed miserably so will this one.

    So one has to ask themselves how much more upside potential is there? Probably not enough to warrant the risk of getting caught in the next leg down when the secular bear returns. Considering that the next 4 year cycle low is coming due next year and most bear markets tend to last about a year and a half to two years. It’s now dangerous to stay in the stock market.

    Plus we have a yearly cycle low coming due for stocks soon.

  319. ALEX


    I will just say this…for me PERSONALLY , its sds or dxd or QID , because I have never shorted with great success.

    I have what my experience tells me are my strengths and my weaknesses, and even though I have tried to get better at my weaknesses-I prefer to actually do as Gary just said

    Find a bullish SECTOR , then I research Equities in that sector , and so on.

    As for shorting , Thats my weakness 🙂

    DG shorts frequently, so he can help you see things better there 🙂

  320. DG

    Sophia: Alex got me to buy juniors and i will get him to learn how to short! There are advantages to each, so it really becomes a question of what you are comfortable with. I have been shorting for many years so it feels no different to me than going long (the math is different, but I mean comfort level, analysis, etc.) If you short you need to be very disciplined because the math is such that losses get bigger and bigger. On the long side a $10 stock dropping to $5 means that an additional 50% loss costs you only $2.50, and so on. I sue very tight stops and have spent my whole life trying to prefect entry points. But that’s just my personal style. (BTW I just shorted FCX and my stops is 20¢ away).

  321. sophia

    Thanks Gary, Alex and DG for your advice…I made a lot of mistakes in the last 6 months and I need to have a different approach…
    I guess that this is called the learning curve 🙂

    But Gary, I am with you, the stock market is brewing something nasty and nobody wants to be caught long on this one…

  322. CMT

    DG, I just read the first 30 pages of your book and see I’m going to like it. BTW, are you familiar with Epictetus? If not, you might want to check the old man out – I think you’ll have a lot in common.

  323. DG

    CMT: Yes, I majored in philosophy so studied all those dead guys. If memory serves he was a little heavy on discipline. If you can remove the desire for the bad habit it doesn’t take discipline to resist it—you just don’t want to do it any more! My stuff works on changing attitudes less than will power. (you need discipline to practice what is in the book, however!)

  324. Jayhawk


    I don’t even know if it’s valid or not, but assuming our targets on silver I could see SLW hit the 60’s by the end of this cycle.

  325. CMT

    DG, actually Epictetus was all about controlling your desires. What you wrote to BookGuy at 9:22 last night sounded a lot like Epictetus. That’s what made me mention it.

    In any event, I’ll be reading your book while lying on the beach next week and NOT watching the markets wiggle!

  326. Eamonn

    I have a question for the more experienced folk, if they would indulge me.
    How hard will it be to make money with Gary when the c-wave is over?

  327. coolkevs

    Where’s the volume? I don’t see much volume in anything – SLV,GLD, SLW, the general stock market. Is everybody tapped out waiting for some magical level to hit, then BUY BUY BUY. It’s no wonder things go up in the morning and then they fade fade fade, because there is no volume. Until further notice, the low-volume lovefest continues…

  328. DG

    CMT: Yes, but my thought is to get at the root rather than controlling your behavior. How do you control a desire? You control the action the desire prompts, not the desire itself. If you get rid of the desire the action fades away. For example, If you learn not to even mind taking losses, you can easily keep them small. If you hate being wrong and taking losses you’ll hang in therewith a bad trade hoping it will all work out.

  329. Daniel

    Anyone have any familiarity or experience with JS Kim at Smartknowledgeu??? No way No How I am giving up Gary (or relying on someone else) but someone brought his name up to me and I do not know too much– (Except he has been a pretty big gold/Silver Bull)
    Thanks to anyone in advance!

  330. Gary

    Not if the dollar continues down into the three year cycle low. It’s the same mistake all the technicians are making.

    Now if the dollar cycle were to stretch out to next fall then yes we might have a top although it is pretty early in the intermediate cycle for a top even if this were going to stretch into the fall.

    Really the only way to get a top in PM at this point is for this to be the three year cycle low right here.

    Sure doesn’t seem like the kind of panic that accompanies three year cycle lows to me or the irrational complacency that accompanies C-wave tops.

  331. DG

    Movak: That article seems a bit silly. There is not one piece of evidence in it other than the fact that silver has already rallied a lot. He claims silver is moving from strong hands to weak hands. How does he know that? It’s pure puffery, IMO. He may even be right, let’s say, but he sure doesn’t say why in any convincing way.

  332. ALEX


    I would say the answer to your question really depends on how things play out, what kind of damage the markets have or are going through , is there any recovery, do yoou short markets or not,etc.

    Gold will have an A wave after the D wave, but they tend to be more tame, unless that changes because we’re getting further along in the P.M.Bull.

    I would say it’ll take effort & research – and NOT as easy as it has been now.

  333. Gary

    Yes we have all gotten pretty spoiled by this C-wave. Once this is over it’s definitely going to be tougher to make money for a while.

  334. DG

    Still sniffing around the short side. Bought some EPV (short Europe) at 49.01. Keeps me amused and prevents me from selling any PM stuff! I keep probing and one day soon I will start hitting, add on bounces, and hopefully make some real money.

  335. coolkevs

    Demark Update from Kevin Depew at Minyanville:

    Silver is on bar 12 of 13 of a WEEKLY sell signal that will record next week. This will be valid for 12 bars, or 12 weeks ~ 3 months. So, from April to June.

    Gold is on bar 11 of 13 sell signal. It has also met a TD Propulsion Up target of 1445 – an exhaustion level.

    US Dollar – not much has changed – MONTHLY on bar 12 but has been in deferral since September 2009, waiting for that 72.5 level. QUARTERLY buy has already recorded. WEEKLY we are on bar 9 of 13 of a buy signal and need to meet the TD Propulsion down target of 74.90. Depew says, “we are getting much, much closer to a major long-term buy signal for the US dollar”

  336. pimaCanyon

    Dollar is on a tear today, especially in the last hour. Fed announced QE3 is unlikely (this may have something to do with it, eh?)

    The steep downtrend line from 3/15 and 3/16 was busted to the upside in the early morning of 3/24. longer downtrend line beginning at the high on Jan 10 crosses 76.80 later today. The dollar breaking thru that would suggest the low of 3/22 could hold for a while, that the dollar would continue heading higher.

  337. ALEX


    A lot of technicians are pointing to the large reversal candle on Large volume yesterday as indicating a ‘top’ here-

    but if you look at SLV or SIVR etc in early Nov, there was a HUGE , High volume reversal and they just went down for a couple days and tagged the 20sma. It was ‘top’ calling then too, but higher in Dec.

    Time will tell as always, but the 20sma is a buying gift if it happens

    On a wkly chart, it hardly shows up.

  338. Strellsy

    That 321 article is unbelievably poor analysis.

    Silver is “looking toppy” is a good as it gets. Not even a discussion of what looking toppy actually means.

    Of course weak hands are buying silver at the moment. Every buy is a weak hand at first.

    He states that the next move in silver is down, but doesn’t even mention gold, which is far from looking toppy. Gold is building a huge 6 month consolidation base from which it is now looking like breaking out of.

    There is no way silver is going to collapse while Gold is consolidating or moving higher.

    All dips in silver have been bought aggressively and on good volume.

    I suggest anyone who thinks silver is “looking toppy” check out Trader Dan for some proper analysis:

  339. Movax

    From a conspiratorial angle, it seems the dollar is on the edge of the abyss and news keeps popping up (fed announcements, Euro debt problems, more bad news about Japan) just before it plunges to buoy the dollar and give it a bit more life – or time for “them” – the elite, smart money, whatever you like – time and liquidity to build positions.

  340. Jonas Haraldson

    Here we go again. Major downwards pressure starting on the exact same minute as yeasterday: 1:30 sharp. Funny how all profit takers synchronize their watches. Meeting some resistance at 37. Let’s see if it can hold up.

  341. thedocument

    Well, my model is receiving final confirmation of an intermediate equity low having been set. I know a new high is a formality of the burrito bet, but I now have the 16th labeled as an intermediate low.

  342. DG

    Doc: I agree. The thrust out of the bottom has a number of historical comparisons all of which indicate an intermediate bottom. I suspect we will test that bottom in some fashion but that the test will be successful. Back-to-back gaps from oversold conditions are rare but telling.

  343. pimaCanyon

    1412 – 1414 is possible on on April gold futures. That’s just a simple A = C calculation. That is the if the current drop ends up being the same length as yesterday’s drop (25 points from high of day to later afternoon low), then the current drop should bottom around 1413.

  344. coolkevs

    Large-range rollovers in SLV/GLD 2 days in a row?? This can’t be good, my friends…never mind, it’s a major fakeout for next week 🙂 Or maybe the low volume is allowing the big boys to push the metal toys around…

  345. Jonas Haraldson

    What’s unfortunate about these plunges is that they generate a lot of negative commentary which then arguably lead to more weakness. One blog I follow called is just one example I’ve seen since yesterday’s drop.

  346. pimaCanyon

    We can always hope that we just made the low and we’re done. That would make the current drop a little more than 62 percent of yesterday’s drop, and that’s a common relationship for waves A and C of and ABC correction (not to be confused with Gary’s ABCD gold wave terminology)

  347. William

    This move in the dollar looks very similar to the bear flag on the 7th. Here’s hoping we get the large move down on Monday.

  348. Gary

    I wouldn’t have any idea how to pick a target for the dollar. Once we get another swing that would be the next chance for a continuation of the downtrend.

  349. pimaCanyon


    What’s your upper limit on this dollar rally that would cause you to consider the possibility that the 3/22 low was a significant low (IT low?) and that the dollar will continue heading higher for some time, weeks maybe?

  350. Gary

    We had a swing low on the dollar three days ago. That doesn’t guarantee that we just saw a very shortened daily cycle though.

    The odds are it is just a bounce to relieve short term oversold conditions before the next push down.

  351. alexi

    I think this is what did it “Fed’s Plosser: Funds rate should hit 2.5% in year”. If they really start raising interest rates, is that a game-changer for PMs?

  352. RussianBear

    What about a possibility of new euro crisis?
    $USD just jumped out (presumably because of the Portugal news). Woudn’t the possible euro crash stop the dollar slide??

  353. pimaCanyon


    Just saw your comment re sniffing short side. So you’re not convinced the stock rally is for real, not convinced SPX will make new highs?

  354. Aaron

    Well…1420 (ish) on Gold and 76.25 on the USD have been reached… this move has my attention if we dont reverse here

  355. William

    What about another euro crisis pushing gold up along with the dollar? Can’t remember the exact timing but how did gold perform during the Greek crisis. I seem to recall seeing news of bullion dealers running out during that time period.

  356. Jonas Haraldson

    This guessing game about the currencies goes to the heart of the whole discussion of what’s real value. Everything is always worth something in relation to something else. In the case of the dollar index, the most important other things are the Euro, the Pound Sterling and the Yen, with the Euro overweighted if I’m not mistaken. So the dollar can be worthless – it’ll still rise if the Euro is even more worthless.

  357. Gary

    OK Here is a plan for those of you that are starting to freak out and don’t have the discipline to let your stops work.

    You can take profits right here right now. BUT you need to have a plan to re-enter.

    Here is one plan. Buy back if and when the HUI breaks out of the triangle consolidation OR when gold tags the 10 DMA and then completes a swing low.

    You will protect profits and potentially be able to re-enter after the short term weakness passes. The downside is that you will re-enter higher if the HUI breaks the trend line before the test and swing. So you will possibly be giving up some profit potential.

  358. Haggerty

    You know AGQ and SLW really didn’t move down while silver was down 40 cents…. that has to be good.

    Later everybody, I’m going to get my winning Mega million Lottery ticket.

  359. Robert

    I think the concerns about no more QE are just ridiculous.Make no mistake about it, QE3 in some form, overt or disguised, will happen.There is no choice for the Fed–

  360. pimaCanyon


    Your post re Don is a good one, very logical. Thanks.


    Please stick around and ask questions. We all learn from Gary’s (and other commenter’s) replies to those questions.

  361. Poly

    Why even post a plan, we’re NOT EVEN DOWN on a daily chart and at 30 yr highs. We’re down 3% from an intra-day spike.

    I know it’s for people that get freaked out, but seriously!

  362. CMT

    Robert, I think the fundamental problem is not whether we have QE3 (or 4 or infinity) or not. It’s simply that we’re drowning in debt – like much of the rest of the world. Debt that can’t be repaid absent a significant amount of inflation/currency devaluation.

    If the Fed is abolished tomorrow, the US still can’t service it’s debt at a “market” interest rate.

  363. Le Fou

    Mark Faber weighs in:

    We Could See A Rebound In The US Dollar And Weakness In Commodities
    I think what we could see in the next few months a rebound of the U.S. Dollar, weakness in asset markets, correction in commodities, and maybe a rebound in U.S. bonds. We live in very volatile times; a correction could be 10%, 20%. I would on any weakness accumulate gold. – in WallStreetPit

  364. Shalom Bernanke

    No way I’m selling anything in an attempt to sidestep a possible few day decline in metals.

    I’ll just hang tight and buy more if the dip occurs (unless stopped out, but my stops are way below Gary’s)

  365. fomerAG

    Hello all, my first post…..but have lurked to learn for a few months and now feel I can ask intelligent questions. I’ve hesitated to ask many questions but have determined the only bad question is the one not asked……so here goes.

    I am invested with a huge percentage of my portfolio in the thesis of the dollar-driven collapse and resulting expectation of a PM rise. It is interesting that the dollar rise has started at exactly the same time on two consecutive days.

    Since the rise in PMs is predicated on the fall of the dollar, should we be worried here? I’d say yes but only if this rise breaks a descending trendline at above 76.60 or thereabouts. If this is dollar driven….if we live by the fall of the dollar, we should expect to fall by the rise of the dollar.

  366. Shalom Bernanke

    People have too much size for their risk tolerance if they’re nervous about a day like today.

    Trust me, Everything is OK, and not just with the metals, but the economy too. Just keeps getting better all the time! 🙂

  367. Gary

    If you are a sub then you know where the stops are. If those get hit it means something else is going on and it’s time to step back.

    Everything else is just guessing.

  368. I've Eaten Silver

    To Anyone,

    What is the highest silver or gold have stretched above their 50DMA during a C-wave.

    I know this has been gone over before, just don’t recall. Thanks.

    Also I know that is not 100% credible by any means, just trying to get a better picture.

  369. Shalom Bernanke


    More than most here, I don’t care one iota about the dollar index as it’s measured in other flawed paper currencies.

    Metals are going higher while paper confetti will fluctuate between relatively stronger or weaker vs other fiat, not metals. Sure, I’d prefer to have a falling dollar at our back, but we’ve already seen the USD and metals go in the same direction many times.

    Metals and miners are the only place to be, IMO, and more people realize this every day.

  370. Poly


    100% right about size. A little 2% pullback is NO REASON to freak unless you’re playing with leverage and don’t know how to accept it!

    Otherwise, we’re not far from all time highs on AGQ, SIL, SLW and GDXJ.

  371. DG

    Pima: from last string—I am not convinced we make new highs, but no matter. We should test the lows and VGK shows up on my short screen. FCX was my own tape reading and no system to speak of. If we test the lows these will both get hit. At that point I can cover or hold until break even. Right now i am nicely ahead on both so my break even stop is in place. You can see how the way I trade has entry points as a key. If you keep placing trades and don’t lose, good things will happen. You lose 20¢ a few times but make a dollar when you get one. Small size until I get actually bearish, and then the first trade will be large and the add-ons as well when the tape tells me I am right. If/ when…

  372. Shalom Bernanke

    No way I’ll convert back to confetti, unless it’s boatloads and at the end of the C-wave. Even then I’m not too excited about a big bank account in doll hairs.

  373. William

    Regarding the rates rising to 2.5% does anyone really think that this is possible? That is a huge rise in rates in one year. 225bps?? That would crush the bond market, crush the Feds holding, make it much more difficult for the government to service it’s debt burden, most likely end any hopes of a recovery in real estate and probably derail any chance of an economic recovery as well. With real inflation rates you can make the case that rates should be that high but I don’t think Bernanke wants to take the blame for tanking this so called “recovery”. He would rather let evil speculators take the fall. There is a chance that rates will be raised but probably not until the fall and I certainly wouldn’t expect rates to be anywhere near 2.5% within 12 months.

  374. fomerAG

    Thank you Gary and Shalom. I am a sub, but need reassurance by the pros in this group, as I have almost ALL of my retirement money in this plan. I will stick to the plan and not act unless the stops are taken out.

  375. Aaron

    To all those who got nervous, this view might help. If you go back to a few options expiration dates, you will notice that a beat down in the metals begins a few days in advance, then on the day of, it rises to the best price for the banks to have the least effect. That price this time around is 1430-1440, so Monday is almost a sure up day 😉
    A long time ago, the beatdown would come on the day of options expiration, but too many traders caught on and started playing the same game… the rules needed to be changed, and changed they have.
    We shall see what develops.

  376. Jonas Haraldson

    Never thought I’d say this, but Bernanke is right. (That’s Shalom Bernanke here on the blog). The dollar is losing value in absolute terms even as it momentarily is gaining against other overprinted currencies.

  377. DG

    formerAG: One other thing to consider—you need to picture a decline and imagine how you will feel. It’s fine to say “I will stick with the plan” but when the pressure hits and you imagine getting wiped out do you freak out and sell? If so, you are too heavy. If not, you will be fine. How will you feel if the stops are hit? Lower confidence in the game plan ought to result in smaller positions sizing so you don’t panic. If you have your entire retirement savings at stake it may interfere with keeping a cool head. Only you can answer those questions.

  378. Shalom Bernanke

    It is a common misconception that metals can’t go higher in a rising rate environment. In actuality, it’s when rates start higher that metals really get into gear on the upside.

    We’re not there yet, and any talk from the criminal Fed is nothing but an attempt to contain commodity prices. They have to address rocketing prices of commods to act like they’re on top of the problem, but they will ALWAYS debase paper currencies, it’s just a matter of how quickly.

    Long before the 2008-09 credit swoon, the dollar was being printed into oblivion. It’s just events like 2008 that remind everybody of the scam, a sort of generational change in how we view things.

    How could anybody believe anything the Fed says? It’s ridiculous.

  379. Poly

    Aaron, you’re right. Scary little beat downs happen ALL the time, especially around expiration. Then they come ROARING back. That’s why I believe selling now and waiting for the breakout is just throwing away good money and losing a good hand.

  380. PressurePointAdmin

    i’ve been privy to larry williams 2011 forecast if anyone is interested in his view for the remainder of the year. Im not the kind of person who is willing to share the soft copy out of respect of his work but i would be willing to answer any questions.

  381. Robert

    From Dan Norcini-just more manipulation by the Fed
    “It is no secret to those attuned to market action that the US Dollar’s technical chart picture is horrendous. It had broken through a critical support level near 77 on the USDX last week and had further descended down towards the tremendously important 75 level. No matter what appeared to be happening in the world, the US Dollar could not get much if any of a safe haven bounce.

    Currency traders had been moving to the Swiss Franc as their choice of a safe haven. The Aussie has been making new highs and the Canadian Dollar has been very strong as well.

    Now, it is also obvious that the US would dearly love to see the Dollar stay weak to help it deal with its massive debt load but the ugly truth is that the Dollar was on course for a major crisis if it violated the 75 level.

    Enter the Fed officials today and yesterday. Apparently the strategy was to get several of the FOMC governors to hit the airwaves talking about ending the QE program. Since it is QE that has been partly responsible for Dollar weakness – along with the abysmal fiscal condition of the nation – something had to be done to prevent a Dollar crash. This is the reason we are getting a sudden rash of Fed officials looking for microphones and venues to talk about ending QE.

    Result? Up goes the Dollar and down goes the precious metals market. Coincidence? I hardly think so. If you understand what I wrote earlier this week explaining the antagonism of Western Central Bankers against gold, then you can easily understand that its rise to a new all time high is testifying against the steady debauchment of the US currency by the Federal Reserve.

    As a kicker, they also manage to further knock down the Japanese Yen saving themselves and the rest of their pals at the G7 from having to actually pay to undergo another round of currency intervention.

    You have just witnessed a shrewdly hidden round of verbal intervention camoflauged as normal policy discussions.

  382. ALEX


    Yeah, thanks.I read it and thought one thing, then saw his feedback and saw that others saw it another way, so figured I’d just mention it. Sometimes in disagreements , “different eyes see different things”

  383. fomerAG


    Good advice. I can handle volatility….and can envision myself hanging on if we approach the stops and that is because of the logic of Gary’s plan and the following Gary has here. There is a very smart core group of leading subs like you, Shalom, Alex, Poly, Pima, and others that give me even more confidence to stick with the plan. I might brown out my underwear but think I could hold out and ride this bronco till the pot of gold is achieved.

  384. DG

    Gold hit the 20 DMA and held. maybe that’s all she wrote for the dip? I have not added yet but will at the 10 DMA, swing low be damned! (Unless I chicken out…)

  385. coolkevs

    Read today’s charleshughsmith(dot)blogspot(dot)com article – A Contrarian Take on the Dollar’s Demise. I think I’m going to start investing in bat guano 🙂

  386. Shalom Bernanke

    I’m starting my weekend early, so getting out of here. Take care, good luck, and stay long metals if you like money.

    Have a good weekend, and don’t freak if we open lower Monday. 🙂

  387. Jonas Haraldson

    Actually, I just realized that I got a super strong deja vu from way back in time. I was 10 years old when Nixon took the dollar off the gold standard in 1971. I remember the major headlines of the seventies:

    – War in the Middle east: check
    – Rising oil prices: check
    – Rampant inflation: check
    – Gold prices soaring: check
    – Silver going ballistic: check

    Just waiting for fuel rationing and government price controls like we had back then. Oh, and big anti-nuclear demonstrations.

  388. ALEX

    Wow Gann ,

    That looked like a shake out the way you had that charted


    I gotta tell ya , picturing you wearing browned out underwear riding a bull is kind of a messy sight that I dont need, thank you 🙂

  389. pimaCanyon


    I use TOS for trading, they’ve got a great charting package.

    You might be able to download their desktop trading application even if you don’t have an account with them, so you can use it for “paper trading”. A bit of a learning curve to get familiar with their platform, but I do like their charts.

  390. Aaron

    PS. a rise in the price of gold in access (globex) is usually a good sign of whats to come the next day.
    Im off to Mexico for the weekend, everyone have a great and relaxing weekend! we shall be victorious!

  391. ALEX

    What is wrong with me today??The pain meds for the back, I guess.

    Bought some more EXK when it bounced off of the 20sma, hope my vision wasnt blurred 🙂

  392. LowTax

    Shalom, I’m with you on the confetti – I fail to understand people who see PMs as too risky and who freak out at the slightest daily wiggle. I’d rather own something buried deep in the ground than that worthless green crap any deay of the week, or year for that matter. The dollar can go up all it wants with respect to other confetti – utterly meaningless. Have a good weekend all!

  393. Driver

    Hag, I just bought mine. I won some a few weeks ago so I’m busy giving it back. My guidelines are over 100 mm buy 10, over 200 mm buy 20, etc.

  394. Clarkatroid

    I don’t understand the panic and frustration every time we are not +2% per day. It’s like having KK pre flop and worried the other guys got AA all the time

    Our hand is strong and we should be more confident about it IMHO 🙂

  395. ALEX

    As a strong side point-

    This is a chart of the C.O.T. report last week ( they come out Friday, but are recorded as of Tuesday)…

    Notice that the Smart Money shorts LAST WEEK were almost the same as JULY low of 2010 and our recent Jan low 2011!

    This Tuesday they may have even reached that same low #. That usually has strong Bullish implications.

    I will not be on this blog often or at all nxt wk most likely, unless I read and poet early morning,I will be on an Island…Enjoy your weekend/week everyone!

  396. Strellsy

    Clarkatroid – nice analogy. The similarities between playing poker and trading the markets are well documented.

    Get the odds on your side and master your own emotions of greed and fear.

  397. Bruce

    fwiw, an Elliot Wave Theory guy from realmoney on silver: just so you know how the enemy is thinking. Just take note, he has no position despite his outlook.


    Ken Goldberg
    Silver sets up surprise
    3/25/2011 1:26 PM EDT
    EWT points to a close below 37 as problematic for silver. 31 +/-2 will be immediatly focused upon in the following 3-5 days following such a close, followed by 25 +/-2 within the following 3-5 days after that. This lower support zone should provide a multi week bounce, back up toward 34 +/-2.

    Silver has gone parabolic, which, as we’ve highlighted with multiple examples in the past year, suggests a full round trip back to the origin of the parabola, once the blow off concludes. The origin appears to be around 20 +/-2.

    Position: na

  398. Ben


    They never actually rationed gas. Lots of stations ran out, and they said they *might* ration, but it never came to pass.

    Price controls, yet — the wage and price freeze, which was widely ignored.

  399. Romeo Bravo

    I’m really starting to understand why any “perfect” set up, even if spoon fed to people takes so long to be compromised by the market. The level of fear, greed and even normal market moves shakes so many people out robbing them of the full potential of any trade.

    Just amazing to watch in real time!

  400. jeff

    I have to wonder, if we had a honest show of hands, if the ones freaking out are the ones over hand is up. But my stops are good and I’m flat on my leverage

    And I have a core
    I will not get crushed

  401. ease

    n1tro , The only thing that put a panic in me, was Gary was saying sell if you feel you need too. But I held as my accounts are fine and stops on stocks in place.

  402. Silverman

    Aaron you said…
    To all those who got nervous, this view might help.

    Thanks a lot for that. Not that I was going anywhere, but it did help.


    Have a great time. Take care of the back. We’ll hold down the fort while you’re gone. Catch some rays for us.

  403. Gary

    I said if you were freaking out and didn’t have the discipline to just let your stops work here is a plan to take profits and a plan to get back in.

    No where did I say one should sell. If that was the case I would post it on the website to sell.

  404. Wes

    I’ve had a sell short on stop order in all day just below yesterday’s low on SLV. It’s too late in the day for the trade, now, so I’ve canceled it.

    One of the real benefits of call options is the ability to short the common against them. Most times you can cover the short for the profit and never have to use the option.

  405. PressurePointAdmin

    It seems that the “fear” or “panic” that i have witnessed here today is indicative of short term trading activity. I thought Garys philosophy was to ride out any blips and catch the big wave. What is it that some people are failing to understand. This is not a place for traders but investors.

  406. pimaCanyon


    First, I made a mistake in looking at my chart. What I saw was the 20 DMA that got tagged today. Gold came very close to tagging the 10 day, but missed it by about $1.80.

    Second, I’m not sure I understand your question. If you want the daily moving average, you have to be looking at a daily chart.

    You know you can also get this from stock charts, probably with a lot less hassle than downloading the TOS app and learning how to use it. But if you want to use other charting tools, TOS has a very complete package.

  407. Hot Rod


    Thanks a bazillion for the COT chart – it was even updated for today.

    Doesn’t look too exciting, not that many big changes which is weird considering the volume and volatility late last week and early this week.


  408. PressurePointAdmin


    Alex and COT movements by commercials should be viewed within the context of the bigger picture, sure extreme readings are often good point of entry but you should also watch for low open interest if going long and high open interest if going short, cheers.

  409. pimaCanyon


    You’re right. But I think some of us at times may try to anticipate what’s coming. I don’t like the surge in the dollar today even though it has not yet broken the major downtrend line. Because Gary’s analysis has focused on the dollar, especially the upcoming 3 year cycle low as being the primary driver for the C wave, when the dollar starts looking like it just may continue higher here, then some of us start to wonder whether/when to start reducing position size by taking partial profits.

    So far the drop in gold and silver would not have me all that concerned. It’s the strength in the dollar that bothers me.

  410. fubsy_cooter

    Why would any body be freaking out at this point? We are looking at perfectly normal and likely very healthy consolidation near highs. A bear flag on the dollar, and a bull flag developing in the PMs. Man, if someone’s having trouble with this action, the PMs are likely not the place to put a huge stake.
    Go a littlw lighter and ride out the downdays.

    Just piping in from the lovely Klamath mountains.

  411. PressurePointAdmin


    I think that you have valid concerns regarding the dollar, but then it come backs to the short terms vs the long term and everyones own individual risk appetite, i think the best approach is to just hold and use any opportunities like this to buy the dips. Even regarding the COT i am beginning to become skeptical after they change their reporting format i think last year. Once something become public knowledge that concerns me. In Sep 2010 commercials were short short short gold, yet what did we see, prices went from 1250 to 1400. On the flip side commercials are now very long the dollar, but that doesn’t mean to say that the market is about to decline, these guys can hold their positions fr months and keep rolling them. So all in all everything i have said is probably worthless lol

  412. David


    What do you think of diamonds as represented by Brian’s suggestion MDM?

    In the past, I have waved people off “investment diamonds” because the price of diamonds is set by a cartel, not the market. They are obviously leveraged to the consumer as well, with all the challenges that represents.

    At the same time, I have done very well with platinum via SWC and have found it a good diversified within the PM complex.

    Any thoughts?

  413. Wes

    @Jonas Haraldson,

    It’s O.K. to remember the 70’s, but if you remember the 60’s, you probably weren’t there :).

  414. ease

    Sorry Gary, that is how I interpreted it, so my misunderstanding. Good to know you will post “SELL” when the time comes.
    I didn’t see any big drops, that I was worried, until I saw your post and being a new sub, have to question what is meant. Since I didn’t understand the in and out process you described to take profits, I chose to hold with stops in place.

  415. PST

    I can only speak for myself on this, but as a newer subscriber, I have a much higher cost basis than those that were buying early in January and February. Unfortunately, I cannot just follow Gary’s lead in terms of his stops and triggers, because I’d be in a loss position at his designated stop. With that said, I wasn’t nervous on a day like today, but last week’s price action around the Japan event had my sweatin a bit.

  416. ease

    PST, I hear you I am in the same position as you. Only bought in late Feb / March. So I know what you are saying. But I was watching for dips to buy in today and then I hear that others are going to do differently, I have to wonder, ok, what am I doing?

  417. Jayhawk


    Here’s the hourly SLW cup and handle or even just a flag if you like.


    Our expectations have been set to see a massive dollar plunge and an epic precious metals blow off top. So to see some kind of weak action here doesn’t perfectly fit our dream scenario. I’m with Aaron…Let’s get the metals expiration Monday behind us. Amazing how every month BS goes down right around that time.

    I was watching the ticks yesterday in silver and saw it chugging up nicely when BAM down within minutes. So obvious. I knew right then, margin increase on silver rumor. Sure enough!

  418. fomerAG


    The explanation you just gave is exactly what I was trying to say earlier. I won’t speak for anyone but this newbie, but others may feel threatened when things start going in the wrong direction. You get accustomed to nice rises and then two down days with a rising dollar not far from breaking thru the descending downtrend line……ya get nervous even though you have the steadying voice of Gary and others on this board. Human emotions are hard to shut down. That is why I value this blog so much. It is needed to keep me sitting tight…..and not browning out and jumping overboard. If the dollar breaks 76.60 I’ll be getting increasingly nervous and will refocus on the Old Turkey method we need to follow.

  419. PST

    at ease,
    I got in in early March too and have been looking to add more for awhile, so I actually bought a bit yesterday. Those were already “materially” underwater today. I’m glad to say though that I was buying some (and pissing my pants at the same time) during the Japan thing.

  420. Clarkatroid

    i hear you jeff

    i also think pressurepointadmin has it nailed on.

    Im an investor not a trader, with 0 leverage because im comfortable with my exposure at 100% and i dont want to put myself in a position where im hitting refresh refresh refresh every 30 seconds on my kitco iphone app

    im hitting it every 10 mins as it is and thats enough tyvm 😉

  421. Steven

    It is clear that there are some timing issues with taxes on AGQ. For example, I had unrealized gains on 12/31/10 and I have to pay taxes on those gains even though I never sold AGQ. But those taxes are addded to your basis in the stock and any other fees they put down on the K-1.

    I called ProShares and they were of limited benefit.

    Here is the real question: in the end when everything washes out and we finally sell AGQ will someone pay a penny more in taxes by owning AGQ than it if was just some regular tax.

  422. PressurePointAdmin

    Ive just looked at the COT report
    Looks like open interest is up which is bearish and also commercials have increased their short position, marginally. Interesting because this time of year is typically a time that commercials are long gold

  423. Jayhawk

    Too funny Clark.

    I’ve been sleeping awful lately (not because I’m leveraged up…I’m 100% in with some small options positions) and I will wake up at 3 or 4 AM Mountain time and immediately I’m hitting Kitco on my iPhone to see what gold and silver is doing on the other side of the globe. My wife thinks I’m insane.

  424. Brian

    Steven, At the end of the day, owning AGQ is no different than owning any other stock. Just a different taxing presentation.

  425. Wes

    I’m not familiar with futures contracts, but when margin is increased, isn’t it increased for both shorts and longs ?

    Seems like the net effect should be small, but there is probably something I’m overlooking.

  426. T.J. Rand

    My wife has more fortitude than I do – she’s been a precious metals bull (for fundamental reasons) since $500 gold…it took until $1000 for my overly-complex, angst-ridden thought process to catch up with her common sense.

    So these days I tell her Silver’s up $1, she says “Good”. I tell her silver’s down $1, she says “So?”. I gnash my teeth and she says, “Where else do you want to put money? Not in stocks, and not in dollars.”

    Keeps me sane.

  427. Yash

    steven – i am not tax expert. but this is exactly i was refering to. now you have to pay taxes on 2010 k-1 even if you did not sell agq in 2010. now when you will sell in 2011, you will get k-1 in 2011 also to pay taxes on it. my guess is final taxes paid will be more than what you would have paid if agq would have been normal etf. but here is lottery. if you sell agq in particular month in 2011 which shows loss for partnership of agq then it will work out in your favour as even if you got trading profit you will get loss of partnership too. if you check their websites then they post monthly statements of gain and loss. there are some months were there are losses shown. of if it happens if you sell in one of them months it will be advantage. also ownership of agq is for full month once you own it on 1st day of month. hope this helps.

  428. n1tro


    the margin increase only affects long positions. in fact, if you are short silver right now, you get paid for holding your short position!

  429. Yash

    brian – i don’t think its same as owning any other stock. in regular stock we pay taxes on stock’s trading loss and gain. the company of stock pays its own tax on company gain or loss. its possible company is making loss but you make trading gain and vice verca. its not connected at all in regular stock. in case of currency and commodity etf we are running that etf as partners. so we are owners and we are liable for partnerships gain and loss. so we are like passive partners who do not run partnership but become part of good or bad of partnership. also worst is in this partnership we don’t even get share of gain that partnership makes but we pay taxes on it. thats why i am not clear what happens to all this gain of partnership. it just accumilates and then what. who eats it. govt gets taxes so govt is happy and they don’t care who eats gain.

  430. Bob loves Hawaii

    Check out Jesse’s silver chart. We have painted a beautiful IHS.

    Enjoy your weekend everybody. Jayhawk, check your e-mail this weekend, I did not forget you, just busy.


  431. T.J. Rand


    She’s well-grounded, that’s for sure. But she’d put me on the far side of the sanity line if I checked PM prices late at night. I live on the East Coast so 6 am is early enough…

  432. Gary

    I have no control over the spam blockers in Blogger. Sometimes it just catches things for no good reason.

  433. TZ(4404)

    For those using kitco to check quotes on your phones and stuff, bookmark these IMAGES. The bookmarks are better because they are not entire web PAGES (with adds and text and junk you don’t need). These bookmarks are the CHARTS ONLY. Fast and small (lower data transfer too):

    (replace ‘***’ with periods)


  434. Clarkatroid

    What a shitty week. The dollars not rolled over and had it’s tummy tickled, the cot report looks stinky, some silver witch is beating us into a pulp, and agq has the audacity to finish 5% off it’s all time high.

    Meanwhile and we are only up around 40-50% this year

    We don’t deserve this crap folks, we really don’t 🙂

  435. Daniel

    One More Stab– Anyone??

    Anyone have any familiarity or experience with JS Kim at Smartknowledgeu??? No way No How I am giving up Gary (or relying on someone else) but someone brought his name up to me and I do not know too much– (Except he has been a pretty big gold/Silver Bull)
    Thanks to anyone in advance!

  436. GottaHaveIt

    Looking for some short term silver trading advice.

    I just transferred a big chunk of money into my new precious metals IRA account to buy some physical silver to balance out my silver miners portfolio. I will have about 22% physical silver and 78% silver miners.

    The IRA money will be available for me to buy silver on Monday.

    My question to you silver prognosticators is: Should I spend it all in one big buy on Monday, or stretch out the purchases over a few days in hopes of catching a dip in the POS.

    I’m inclined to just buy it all on Monday on hop on the train for the long ride since silver seems to be taking off.

    But if any of you see a good reason why I might want to wait a few days to buy some or all of my physical silver, I’d love to hear your advice.

    I’m NOT going to wait weeks because I think silver is going UP … so it’s just a question of buying it ALL on Monday or stretching it out over a few days next week.

  437. ike

    The dollar is on day 14 of the daily cycle, which is too early for a daily cycle low.

    However, it just printed the 20th week of the intermediate cycle, which is normally in the timing band for a swing low.

    The last intermediate cycle was shortened (13 weeks I believe).

    That should mean that this intermediate cycle for the dollar should stretch.

    What is the likelihood that the trouble in Portugal helped trigger a flight to the dollar and we are now facing a 3 -6 week rally of the dollar out of an intermediate cycle low?

  438. Steven

    Thanks Brian for the reassurance. Yash, according to my accountant what is really happening is that you are paying the unrealized gains in AGQ + partnership income – partnership expenses (even if you didn’t sell any shares). I kept my position on 12/31/10 and then sold everything in January for about 10 days. Yet my realized gain on AGQ (I had done some trading during the move up in the Fall) is only a very small fraction of the total gains they are asking me to report. My accountant says that all of these numbers will be added to the basis of your stock when you eventually do sell AGQ.

    Does this make sense to anyone as an explanation for how AGQ works tax-wise?

  439. ike

    Maybe flight to the dollar was not termed correctly.

    The dollar has formed a daily swing low.

    If the dollar breaks above 76.28 next week, we will have a weekly swing low in play as well…

  440. T.J. Rand


    I’ve read some of Kim’s stuff on Seeking Alpha, but have no deep knowledge of him. His articles seem well researched, and his analyses generally sound, but I can’t really attest to the accuracy of his calls.

  441. Yash

    unrealized gains in AGQ + partnership income – partnership expenses

    unrealized gains in AGQ will get adjusted when you sell evenually I think but partnership income – partnership expenses won’t. so thats extra on which to pay tax. so how much is (partnership income – partnership expenses) – is that substantial?

    I am not worried about unrelaized gains.

  442. Jonas Haraldson

    @Ben: Not so easy for you to know, but I live in Sweden and we certainly had gas rationing for at least a year or so. Killed my budding hockey career, since the place where we trained was too far away.

  443. pimaCanyon


    If I were buying physical, I’d buy some now but probably wait to buy half or more near the bottom of the upcoming D wave.

    Of course, the D wave might not play out as planned, maybe silver goes to 60 (or 70 or 80) instead of 50 and only corrects to 40 (or 50) in the D wave. So if you wait, you risk having to buy at higher prices.

    However, how will you feel if you buy it all now and the D wave drops silver into the low 20’s? I would not feel so good about that which is why I would reserve at least 1/2 of my cash to use as close to the bottom of the D wave as I can get.

  444. n1tro


    so if i am long 1 mini lot of silver (500oz), they charge me $1.60. if i am short, i make $0.45 per lot. how’s that for conspiracy?? shouldn’t borrowing paper silver cost the same whether you are long or short? its like some unknown power wants people to short silver! lol

  445. Steven


    It was a six figure number for me so yes it is substantial. And I live in NYC one of the highest tax rate areas in the country. But, again, my accountant believes the P/S income will be added to the basis in AGQ when it is finally sold.

  446. Paul

    With the EU approving a 706 billion dollar bailout fund and the BOJ printing Yen, the dollar has rebounded. This could set up a scenerio where the dollar rallies for some time. A strong dollar could be what the Fed wants right now enabling them for more QE. Would you consider the possibility of a QE3 if the dollar does gain strength? I know you have said there will be no more QE immediately following QE2, but in this case the 3 year cycle low would probably arrive in Fall.

  447. Paul

    Just thinking here. Gold and silver rallied along with the dollar on wed or thurs b/c the world knows fiat currencies are garbage. The USD was up 1.5% (one of its better showings) fri, silver up .40% and gold down only 0.04%. POS and POG could rally along side the USD for the next month for Bernanke to give a clue about a possible QE3 in April. This could be when the firework show really begins kind of like last years run but now with the dollar sinking into the 3 year cycle low. POS could hit 100 and POG 2500 if this scenerio plays out. Pipe dream I know, but winning the mega millions was the winners pipe dream too.

  448. Gary

    I am considering the possibility that gold could rally along with the dollar. But I seriously doubt we are going to see QE3.

    Think about what triggered QE2. It was the market collapse last summer. Until that the Fed was contemplating withdrawing liquidity because the market was soaring and the economy was on the mend.

    They didn’t change their mind until the market crashed. It would take another market crash before the Fed panics and runs QE3.

  449. BradE4448

    From Turd Ferguson:

  450. Gary

    In theory that makes sense. But the Fed can’t break the currency either. They are between a rock and a hard place with no real possibility of escape.

    I expect they will just deal with each emergency as it arises. When the currency starts to crash they will halt QE long enough for the dollar to recover. That will of course cause the stock market to deflate and the economy to roll over. At some point they will panic as the pressure on the dollar will have eased and the markets and economy will then take front stage.

    Enter another round of printing until the dollar gets in trouble again. Repeat.

    At some point a reckoning will come where we will have to decide to either hyper inflate or allow the deflationary depression to cleanse the system.

  451. BradE4448

    I asked this the other day and maybe you missed it but do you have an opinion on the possibilities of a share split for AGQ – it is getting a little pricey for the average investor.

  452. Gary

    Hmm I really have no idea. If I remember right the triple inverse financial ETF did a reverse split so I guess there is precedent.

  453. Gallo


    How will the rising dollar, if it continues, effect your gold and silver projections and timeline in this C wave…or should I just wait for the weekend report.

  454. Eamonn

    Interesting how the Fed members came out in interviews over the last few days talking about interest rates rising by 2.5% over the next year. Maybe they were trying to talk up the US dollar. Any analysis I have read has said that was total rubbish that interest rates would rise by that much

  455. wingwalker

    Yeah, it was Plosser from the Fed talking yesterday. He’s a hawk and doesn’t represent the makeup of the Fed so most people don’t take his views as real policy statements. You can see that at noon when he started talking the $ went up and bonds and gold dropped. It’s not till the dove members of the fed start talking about this that these moves will make me more nervous.

  456. Robert

    Here is another point of view why QE will probably not end anytime soon from Dan Norcini -unable to copy chart he talks about

    The Seeming Unstoppable Rally in US Equities
    One of the things that has really struck me has been the comments of many of the analysts and guests on the financial TV this past week in regards to the rally in US stocks.

    The common refrain seems to be something along these lines:

    “Well Joe, this market has had TWO BLACK SWAN Events thrown at it in two week’s time and it simply will not stay down. Whenever you see a market that does not respond to bad news and actually begins to shrug off that news and moves higher, you JUST HAVE TO BUY IT”.

    It is always fun listening to some of these analysts scratch around for reasons to explain this stock market strength especially when some of these same people will point to the poor labor markets and broken housing market as reasons for concern. Some go as far as expressing great hesitation over further strength given the sharp rise in crude oil and related energy prices. They sluff that off however and will point to the global growth factor as reasons for the rally in the US equity markets with that overiding everything else.

    The simple truth is that the world is awash in liquidity and this liquidity is finding its way into both stocks and commodities. It is so massive that it just overpowers anything that gets in its way. In such an environment most traders are simply afraid of being short. What happens as a result of this unwillingness to aggressively sell is that it takes less and less volume to move stock prices higher because sellers are scarcer and price must move high enough to entice sufficient offers into the market to accomodate all the orders to buy.

    Take a look at the following chart which I have posted previously here at the site but which I think needs frequent reference to remind us how important this liquidity has become to maintaining the rally in US stocks.

    Note the sharp expansion in the Fed’s Balance sheet near the beginning of this year and note how it just keeps on rising. It is that measure of liquidity that swallowed up the selling due to unrest in MENA and the tragedy surrounding Japan.

    The Fed may be floating a trial balloon by talking about an end to QE to gauge how stock markets will actually react to such an event but one has to wonder how shutting off the liquidity spigot, based on this chart, is going to affect the high flying equity markets.

  457. Eamonn

    Interesting article, Redwine. I hope it comes to bear!
    Can anyone here recommend Interactive Brokers? I need to switch broker and I am thinking of going to IB. Thanks

  458. catbird


    I’ve been with IB for almost a month and I like them.

    If you’re going to use any margin, that alone is reason to use IB because their rates are pegged to the federal funds rate and hence are the lowest.

  459. Eamonn

    Thanks catbird for your feedback on IB. My present broker is kinda scary in terms of their competence so I will have to wait for the c-wave to end before I transfer. I don’t want to miss the c-wave and I’m really scared my broker will screw up the transfer or do something bizarre with my money.

  460. BradE4448

    Google Trader Dan’s Market Views and you read his articles and see the charts. Turd Ferguson reference’s Dan from time to time.

  461. catbird


    There are some frighteningly incompetent people at my former broker (Scottrade) but it only took 3 biz days of pressuring them and 10 years off my life expectancy (ha ha) for them to see a mistake they made after I switched. (had to do with a trade they made after all my equity was moved to IB. it was a trade that I didn’t authorize)

    An ACATS transfer is routine and shouldn’t be cause for concern, despite what happened to me.

    Why wait?

  462. Gallo

    It would be a “surprise” for most to see both a rising USD and gold. Truth be told they do not always share an inverse relationship. This may just be one of those times. This blog knows better than most.

  463. jeff

    got the charts , thanks again

    so my question is when the fed stops or ends QE2 will the banks turn around and short the market?

    something like some of them did on the houseing? all the while haveing the investers long

  464. Eamonn

    catbird, I couldn’t handle the stress and worry of an account transfer with my current broker. I lost $2k one morning last week because of a calculation error they made. I was 20 mins on the phone to have it remedied. Most responses emails from their “customer service” are pre formulated stock answers which make clear that they have not read and understood my original message to them.

  465. Jonas Haraldson

    I saw this calculation over at

    Anyone have an opinion of whether this sounds like a reasonable analysis?

    “Collectively all the G 10 banks are short over 7 billion oz of silver and if imput an average price of say 16.00 dollars the losses are: 7 billion x 21 = 147 billion dollars. Say JPM has 40% of this total, then in silver alone they are deficient of 59 billion dollars. This is just silver.

    In gold the total shortfall of all the G10 banks is around 50,000 tonnes of gold whereby 7000 tonnes is forwards and 43,000 tonnes is naked calls. (BIS data Nov 2010). In oz, the total shortfall is 1,600,000,000 oz (1.6 billion oz) with an average input starting point of say 500.00. The loss in gold would be 1400-500 or 900.00 dollars per oz x 1.6 billion oz or 1.44 trillion dollars.”

  466. Robert

    Jeff–It’s Just my opinion but make no mistake about it, QE3 in some form, overt or disguised, will happen .
    If not the stock market will collapse, the economy which is already in horrible shape will even get worse .Bernanke and the Fed will not allow it to happen.Listen Obama wants to get re-elected along with all Democrats in the congress, do you really think a sinking economy will help them-
    Also who will buy are debt, the Fed already buys 73% of it now-

  467. rapper

    just got a fortune cookie and this fortune was inside-
    You will have gold pieces by the bushel- better than stocks!

    is this like the shoe shine boy telling me to buy pm’s?

    also I have only seen the etfs get split when they are getting killed. srs, tza, faz were all split but they were also all on their way to zero. during the meltdown some of them were as high as 1k. WOuld love to see my AGQ hit 1500!

  468. Driver


    If the $USD can move above 77.04, won’t it form a weekly swing low? If that happens would you still want to see a higher high on the daily chart?

  469. MrMiyagi

    Good reading Gary, as usual well thought out and presented.
    No bullshit.
    Enjoy your competition and Savannah, my wife and I love that eccentric city.

  470. catbird

    I take caffeine and AAKG (the central ingredient in NO-Xplode) before lifting. You can buy generic AAKG powder on Amazon for a fraction of what NO-X costs.

    I take creatine, but I am still ambivalent about it. I may not buy another tub if I don’t see a difference after I finish the one I have.

  471. Ryan


    I’m glad you don’t take any supplements. I can’t remember the name now but I was recommended one from the in store shop at the gym and horrible side affects. My fingers started tingling and my friend that took the same supplement had chest pains and later found out from his doctor that he may have damaged his spleen! Scary stuff, don’t even know what is regulated or not.

    Great report this weekend, lots of information. I was a little spooked from your comment on friday about taking profits but have a re-entry plan (I know you did not say to sell). But I did end up selling some late entries at break even, no big deal only 8% of portfolio so if we get more weakness, the weekend report about the stops gave me confidence and will put it back to work next week.

  472. Gary

    I must confess I have no idea what that is. The only dieting I do is right before the meet as I usually have to lose about 3-5 lbs to make my weight category.

  473. Razvan

    great lift Gary althou 120kg doesnt seem like that much weight.
    Next time i go to the gym i will try to see what this clean and jerk is all about.

  474. Wav_ridah

    Cavemen didn’t have diseases and sickness like we have today and many scientist blame the foods we eat today for many of our bodily problems. The body hasn’t evolve as quickly as our food has leaving the question is it really healthy. The caveman diet is based on foods our bodies were meant to eat.

  475. jeff

    i didnt want to say it, but im with you. i got more than one part shot. im not really hurt, but everything i do is garded

  476. Gary

    120 kg = 264 lbs

    I did 135kg/297 lbs. this afternoon.

    The world record in my age and weight category is 142.5kg/314 lbs.

  477. jeff

    im going to gut my bedroom, ceiling floors and walls and i pay them what i make a hr.. cash. they love me and are glad and greatful and there on the spot. hell half the time when i drop them off i stay and eat dinner with them. the ALWAYS have hot dinner on the stove.

  478. Razvan

    the hardest part looks like when you have to keep the weight all the way up.
    i dont really have the body type for this sport but i will try it. I am tall and slender but have been working out for many years.

  479. 86d4life


    Right on on the guarded issue. At some point, all the tears and pulls and heavy hits really add up. But thanks to the `G` and some of the real heros on this board, the heaviest thing I`ve had to lift in the last 3 weeks is my limit of sea trout or a bag of fresh grapefruit.

  480. jeff

    working in the port?

    me and dad play volleyball for 15 years. working out and training keeps you in shape to do that, but then in the working world we dont really train, or streach and it chatches up to you. also you cant stop for a while while you heal

  481. Wav_ridah

    I’ve heard of that one but never read it. I’ve heard nothing but good things about the diet. If anyone can stick to it, the diet will change your life.

  482. 86d4life

    Port Mansfield, Tx and about the only thing I`m working on is catching another limit of trout. And who says there`s no justice!

    The repetitive use injuries in construction are unavoidable. I put in about 20 years of framing, drywall and roofing. I thought roofing was great because I didn`t have to be in the mud on the ground. Now my knees and lower back have a different opinion.Lol.

  483. pimaCanyon

    Hello Gary,

    Great weekend report!

    I will try to ask this without giving away details, so here goes:

    You mentioned the possibility of the 3 year cycle low in the dollar coming in at a different time than you were expecting.

    What about last November? Could that IT low have been the 3 year cycle low? That is, could it have already happened and we missed it?

  484. Gary

    Well if November was the three year cycle low then we are now already in a left translated three year cycle, as we’ve moved below the November bottom, and will be well into a hyperinflation by the next one in 2014.

    I don’t really expect hyperinflation until the end of the decade at the earliest and hopefully our government will come to its sense before that happens.

  485. pimaCanyon

    okay, I see. Because the recent low in the dollar was LOWER than the November low, we would have to be in a severely left translated new 3 year cycle and that would be ugly, very ugly. Yeah, hyperinflation around the corner and all that.

    So it makes sense that the 3 year cycle low is still ahead of us.

    Thanks, Gary. Great weekend report, very thorough!

  486. Steven


    If the 3 year cycle in the dollar is pushed out (or the dollar even strengthens here) do your targets for gold and especially silver change? I thought previously you were thinking 1600+ and at least a tag of $50.

    Thanks and amazing report, as usual!

  487. Clarkatroid

    Nice report Gary , many thanks. Gives me some confidence and focus when the noise starts seeping in

    The weightlifting has inspired me also. I’m about to attempt a clean and jerk on on 2 snickers bars simultaneously. If I make it I will eat them. If I don’t I will eat them

    Don’t try this at home kids

  488. PST

    Shot at the world record….wow, that’s pretty impressive.

    You ever notice that people who excel in life, will do so at a few different chosen “concentrations”. This alone tells me that I’ve probably aligned myself with the right guy.

    Good luck in Savannah and bring home the record.

  489. Gary

    No a dollar rally doesn’t mean a strong dollar or less dollar in circulation. It just mean the EU is outprinting the Fed at the moment.

  490. The Angry Hippie

    Just watched that clean and jerk and I think I figured out Gary’s strategy. He doesn’t predict the direction precious metals based on fundamentals. He threatens kick their ass unless they move his way.

    Nice work brother.

  491. Shalom Bernanke

    And the printing continues….

    (AGI) Washington – The International Monetary Fund will set up, next week, a 580 billion Dollar anticrisis fund. “The greatest concern is the risk of contagion from Portugal,” says a well informed source. IMF’s top officer, Dominique Strauss-Kahn, will issue the fund, on the basis of the ratification announced on March 11 by the Nab (New Arrangement to Borrow). Last year, the Nab increased 10 times its initial 53 billion Dollars, thanks to the 13 new member countries.

  492. jeff

    so we are on the verg of a breakout. we tested the new highs, tested the 10 ma, formed a swing.
    could we test the highs a few more times?
    i have some may 1440 calls and just a little nervous about them. i was thinking june for the top was safe so 1440 was safe for the end of april.. im inclined to let them ride. any thoughts? ( other than that is not in garys plan, so that is what you get lol)

  493. PST

    This may be a dumb question but I’m still learning…so here goes. If you think that the market may continue it’s down trend in the weeks to come, why is the recent weekly swing an intermediate bottom in your eyes, and not just an amplified counter trend rally due to the exogenous Japan shock?

    I still need to get through many weeks of previous reports like you suggested, so I appreciate the patience if this is something that is explained elsewhere.

  494. Gary

    Because its potentially in the timing band for an intermediate bottom.

    However until the market makes a new high I’m sticking with the theory that it will rollover and go lower based on the daily cycle.

  495. PST

    Thanks, got it.

    I’m actually confusing terms and see that that was your conclusion when I reread the weekly update.

    My bad.

  496. YesLetsDiscuss

    I am sure there are several people here that use IB and trade futures. I am just getting my feet wet with some April e-micro gold contracts and could use advice.

    I got an email from IB Friday with a warning to sell or liquidate those immediately as they cannot be delivered. Otherwise they will involuntarily liquidate them. I thought they are good until April, but now I guess, April contracts = April delivery and trading ends in March.

    Does anyone know if there is a roll-over feature in IB for futures and options?

    I guess when trading starts tonight, I’m gonna have to sell them. I really hope we open UP like last weekend. I wouldn’t mind getting a chance to buy back next month’s tomorrow at the same price.

  497. jeff

    bob or anybody

    i have some 1440 may calls and starting to get a little skiddish about them. then a few minuets later i feel fine. any thoughts?

  498. jeff

    ya next test ill dump them. nothing in stone that this will take off just yet, but i really like the futures chart with the volume and open intrest graph on it. like gary said open intrest is down. when i look at everying all i see is blast off, but one more test, ralley out of the dollar and a little delay…. ok ok ill dump =)thanks

  499. Veronica

    Yesletsdiscuss, you need to roll to the next contract on or before the 3rd last business day. I rolled to the June contract late last week.

  500. YesLetsDiscuss

    Thanks jeff, Bob LH, Veronica/Vuvvy

    The contracts were still in my account, and I sold them for 1426…i’m gonna hold off on buying for now. Its not fun to see the profits dwindle from 1440s and have to sell it.

    Just trying to understand how the dates work – looking on the CME website, the first position for the April contract is listed as 3/30 and the first notice is listed as 3/31 with the first delivery as 4/1.

    Do you think IB wanted to settlement by 3/30 and so asked me to sell by 3/27?

  501. Veronica

    I trade with IB, and before with Transact and I always make sure I roll 4-5 business days before contract month end. I’m not sure what IB’s exact policy is.