I don’t post here much, but I have been your subscriber for years – longer than most people on the board.
I have to say that ALEX has been posting his trades in near real time for a long time and has been scary good. There is no need for you to be so testy and cancel his subscription.
You have to admit that several people have made much better calls in the past few months.
Several people here use cycles to supplement their styles – not everyone trades exactly as the model portfolio.
And a lot of those people are using what you have been teaching – the cycles methodology to arrive at different conclusions than you.
This for instance – yesterday, gold had a swing low in the timing band. The last daily cycle was right translated. The most likely outcome here is there will be a second daily cycle and will exceed the previous highs.
Your scenario may turn out to be right. But this is the most probable one using cycles theory.
You may say we are in the D wave or B wave. But the fact is you’ve called a D wave and rescinded it at least 4 times since the silver collapse last year. Forget the dollar index for a moment as all currencies are being devalued and its a measure against them.
You should encourage comments here, not discourage them.
You’re doing pretty good WW, I have zip emotions most times (99%) with money and the market. Huge contrast to when I started 10 years ago, sweating, heart beating all that jazz..
“Never said that. I said I would try another short term trade.”
So you are doing a short term trade against your intermediate term projections? In the past, you have noted that you think it’s always best to simply ride the bigger picture instead of catching every little wiggle.
BTW, Miyagi-sensei, I should have listened to you this morning…you say ” careful not to sell too much today”…You have been calling the daily moves pretty right from your hotel room!
Thanks sophia, It’s a collective community here, everyone has good information. I can’t wait to be out of hotels and in a house, this is getting old… Anyone need a house-sitter in an expensive city?
“If that correction moves below the January 30 intraday low we will have a left translated and failed daily cycle in progress, which is what I have been anticipating.”
If you expect the IT low to come in March, do you still anticipate it to be left translated?
Allright.. wife says get off the laptop, time to go look at houses. I think positive markets untill Tuesday seeing this Greek moneybleeding is on Monday but I’ll see later at the close.
Keep in mind, if Gold does have another DC higher we can see a test of the C-wave highs and the A-wave still be intact…which means we possibly still have a B-wave ahead of us.
I’ll push back on one part of your assessment. The last several trades of Gary’s trades have been anything but “buy and sit back with low risk”. Virtually every entry and exit into and out of GDX is highly sensitive to the timing of Gary’s real-time calls. Minutes and some times seconds make for a 1-3% difference.
Now, Gary has done a good job of picking when to be in and out so there’s zero criticism about the quality of the trades and recommendations, but it’s totally false that you don’t have to be quick and attentive to make money alongside him in the “post C-wave” era.
Good call Gary, you nailed it too then 🙂 I don’t have any visibility into the aggressive portfolio. But you’re clearly building an excellent read on trading the HUI.
By the way ,y comment to Alex wasn’t a backhanded insult to you, it was throwing some love Alex’s way since he’s one of the few others besides you who consistently sticks his neck out with turning point calls.
That’s a funny mental image 🙂 Well I won’t disagree with you on that. Sticking to gold here as well for the foreseeable future, especially with the stock market pushing the upside the way it is. Never ends pretty.
everyone no complaining! these little daily arguments aren’t going to mean anything when gold/silver doubles/tirples/quads up, and we’ve traded it all the way to the top. thanks gary, alex, ww, poly and anyone else who is a professional and shares their opinion to the non-pros. you guys are great and there are 1000s of people here who don’t say anything who really appreciate everything you guys do — especially gary!
In a previous post I detailed my levels for a gold DCL…
First – 150dma Second – Fibonacci levels Third – 50dma Forth – 200dma
I mentioned in that same post that the bottom would almost certainly be marked by a reversal off an MA and close at or above the prior supporting MA that was breached (the 20dma in this case).
Barring something crazy today should mark the DCL.
Sorry to ask you this again but which close do you mean? Do you put a ton of weight in the precise closing price or treat it as a rough guide. The strength we’re seeing here makes it tempting to pre-empt the close.
If the SPX is sold off into this breakout of the July high, and drags gold down with it, or gold decides it needs to take out the 150dma, we keep an eye on those levels I mentioned below it.
See the 20dma was actually pretty tough support yesterday and last night, looking at a daily chart now seems as if gold just blew through it both up and down. This is what I was refering to when I was talking about certain MA’s looking ineffective at different times.
Since Alex won’t toot his own horn I want to tell everyone that Alex told me and several other traders that we hang out with that today was likely to be a great buying opportunity for gold and miners BEFORE the market opened.
Here’s a line from a message that Alex sent to us at 6:17 AM Pacific Time (9:17 ET) this morning (13 minutes before the market opened):
“$1703 was my target for Gold, but the way Miners are lined up…I am thinking that we will see a buy on Miners today (Gap down open) and gold will turn up.”
Based on that message from Alex, and watching the market action this morning, I bought NUGT at $20.75. Right now it’s at $22.95
Thanks Alex!
The other trader I follow is another long-time poster here on the SMT blog that many of you will recognize, he goes by the nickname “BobLovesHawaii”
Bob has been KILLING it lately and he posts his trades on Twitter @BobLovesHawaii
Meanwhile, I will continue to subscribe to Gary’s premium service because I like his cycles commentary and market insight.
As I posted the other day you can never have too many good investing ideas.
Gary is good, Alex is good, BobLovesHawaii is good … and they all have different trading styles.
Now, as Rodney King once said, “Can’t we all just get along.”
Thanks. I’m seeing that GC made an intraday high of 1730.5, which is why I ask about if/how you honor where it closes today (vs. just the intraday price action alone). Obviously we have yet to push through *and* hold above the 10 DMA which may be why you are still in waiting and seeing mode.
Agree the 20 DMA went from a rock to soup between yesterday and today. Why then set it as your stop level vs. a more firm MA like the 150? I know that’s a much looser stop but at the same time the sudden ineffectiveness of the 20 could result in a quick whipsaw.
My target for a new DC and A-wave top is the C-wave upper trendline, around $1873. If we got the dollar topping here on day 5 that shouldn’t be a problem.
I was thinking the same…Gold hasn’t moved since last week..It will very soon, most probably up but who knows…If the rally on the USD, we are still at the same price as last Friday
Nobody complimented me….I could start a paying website with my comment this morning
Sophia said
Riley,
Thank you but it was William who gave me the guts to short on Monday….and since I saw the rally above 1740 after the fact, I was lucky enough to keep it….But we shall see how far it goes, it seems that everybody is ready to jump on bioard at 1680, so I am not sure we will even get to 1700!
I’m now eyeing 170 GLD again. A close above that would definitely cause me to go long.
UUP still looks like it’s going up to me. Yes today’s candle and volume look horrific, but so did Jan 4th, after which price went up. The daily MACD is definitely up on UUP.
Sophia, you’re a GREAT trader! You shorted gold, and then went for a walk in the park with your kids. Now that takes major kahuna’s! You’d be a great air traffic controller.
“the stock market forcing the dollar to go down..” I always assumed that it was the dollar that drove the market and not vice versa..
In anycase, just wanted to let you know that your thoughts on the dollar strengthening will probably not happen… Also, you need to see without bias my friend
Something smells fishy here…Monday is Bank Holiday in the US…How will people keep their long trades over a 3 days weekend? I will be ver surprised to see a strong rally into Friday…
Today’s high in the $SPX has neg div on the daily RSI, SStoch and CCI. And AAPL didn’t make a higher high, and also has neg div. It’s a top. The dollar will rise, gold fall, and Gary’s right. Me thinks.
Since you have said the GDX trade is short-term, how long do you NOW expect it will be before the stock market rolls over?
The market seems to want to keep grinding higher despite (or maybe because of) expectations of a big drop.
Alex and others have speculated that the stock market could keep grinding higher for a couple months with just mild pullbacks, similar to what it did in 2010.
No one called all this better than Doc, IMHO, and after all the s**t he took here, here’s what he had to say when someone on his site congratulated him for winning anohter burrito bet:
“As I’ve said before, Gary is a smart guy, and I knew he would get on board at the moment of truth. He just pulled off a successful dollar trade and then bought GDX at very favorable prices, so I’m not so sure I won anything.’
With all the liquidity being provided from the biggest central banks, I’d wager we see the grind higher with only short term pullbacks (albeit scary ones):
thanks for posting that. It’s a good reminder for those of us who stayed long PM’s during their move into their DCL, while Gary did the prudent thing and closed his PM positions and went long the dollar. Short term trade yes. But he made money on the UUP trade. AND he gets back into the PM trade at a better price. Hard to argue with that kind of success.
Revision: I’ll go long GLD when spot $GOLD goes above 1739.20, yesterday’s high.
I think WW said this yesterday, correct WW?
Also, it still strikes me as major important that AAPL didn’t make a higher high today – AAPL is the market LEADER and MAKER. W/out leadership, this is all suspect. Just saying.
That should be fine, when an MA holds it holds. If gold is headed higher the 20dma should hold tight, as it was last night before gold finally breached it.
Thats correct, but that was before I seen gold drop to the 150dma and put in a strong reversal (although it was SPX driven), so I changed my entry today to a bit below that which was a breakout of yesterday’s close and a move above where the 10dma is today. Yesterday the 10dma was at $1732.60, today $1729.60. I also have a close stop at the 20dma, which if gold is to follow through off this reversal and 150dma bottom, it shouldn’t move back below the 20dma unless the SPX drills it below it.
Indeed…and even if we don’t have a big gap down, the markets have rallied so much in the last 6 weeks that if people think that a positive outcome is reached it will rally 5-8% they are dreaming! Back in May 2010, when the ECB floaded the markets, the European markets were down 15% and rallied for 1/2 day by 10%…Now, we have rallied, so it really doesn’t make sense…
If we were close to a TOP in the metals/miners I would be nervous holding over a 3-day weekend, but most of us now assume that we are near a BOTTOM for miners and the PM’s so I will hold FULLY loaded over the long weekend.
If you look at what happened last month after a 3-day holiday weekend, GLD gapped UP on Tuesday Jan 17.
Plus there’s been spy SOS all week. It just feels like one big bull trap. Everyone on the blogs are bullish and you know what happens when everyone is thinking the same thing…
sure…I am pretty thick, so I will wait…I agree with you that miners are the way to go, but ultimately they will follow the S&P first, so close to a top of the broad market I am suspicious… But, of course,I am sure that if I don’t take the trade, it will be a mega winner, ah ah ah…LOL
Just following up on your earlier question about why the 20dma and not the 150dma for my stop…if I believe that today’s reversal will indeed see some follow through (depends on SPX follow through also), gold should hit resistance first at the $1725 handle, second the 20dma at $1722, and then the $1720 handle, my stop is below second and third resistance at $1719, so if my stop is hit I would think gold is going to breach the 150dma this time around and rather be out before then with a small loss. If I did happen to get whipsawed , gold is not going anywhere without me if it plans on blasting off afterwards.
WW, I’ve turned on all the SMA’s you noted, and I see what you’re saying. Very interesting. Up until now I’ve been using EMA’s as triggers; but I do also see now that SMA’s act as support/resistance.
At the moment, GDX, SLV and SIL are all below the 10d SMA, and GLD is only 0.10 above it, so to me a breakout is not confirmed yet, despite the candles.
Thats why I said earlier “gold still hasn’t even closed above the 10dma, make sure stops are in place”. The SPX rolls over deep and gold will almost certainly take out the 150dma.
Gold futures may still close below the 10dma today, but it really all boils down to what the SPX does from here, unless there is a complete decoupling as we seen on Feb 3rd.
WW, I’ve been following your posts for awhile without comment and want you to know that I appreciate your input. I have a question though, How are you deciding what sma’s to use?
Getting pretty stretched up here. Should be interesting to see how equities pan out next few months. I still think PMs will pull back further…but its just too tricky to initiate anything at this point.
I use SMA’s that have proven to be historically effective (in realtime also), ie. the 150dma was extremely effective in halting basically every intermediate cycle decline throughout the last C-wave, but was pretty much meaningless in halting IC declines prior. Several MA’s are effective at different points in history, within cycles, and on shorter time frames also. Many of the pivots you see on a chart, whether it be a monthly, weekly, daily, hourly, 5 minute…are created by MA’s.
Yup that is exactly what is going to happen, gold futures closed above the 10dma though. In the past I pointed that out to Miyagi, gold closed above the 10dma, opened below it and it acted as resistance. But thats not to say it will have any effect other than short term.
Looks like the 10dma for Gold has now reversed and it went higher, albeit negligibly. GC closed and opened just high enough that it stayed above the 10dma.
Silver on the other hand did what was predicted and opened below now below the rising 20dma.
Thanks, makes sense. Though the 20 DMA is trending up and is at 1726 now, so if it is supposed to show strong support then just under 1726 makes for quite a nice tight stop.
I meant that Alex trades stocks full-time for his living. He does not have a regular “job” he lives off his stock trading investment returns. He does not manage money for anybody else.
Same goes for BobLovesHawaii.
They both make their living trading stocks … so they HAVE to be good, otherwise they don’t eat and can’t pay their mortgage!
Yup at 1726 at the open now, it’s above 1725 support now, today it was below it, so if it acts as strong support now as it did last night gold should hold above 1725. Although gold may penetrate the 20dma it will look to close above the 20 as it supports the move higher.
Yeah GC is basically milling around while the 10 SMA on the hourly chart “catches up”. Actually, looks like a bear flag waiting for a match to be lit under it.
Here’s what I have learned over the past 24 months since finding this blog. 2010 was awesome and I made a bunch of money following Gary. Since the silver crash, I have been killed an given most of it back because I can’t sit in front of the computer and trade all day long. I have basically given up and will probably just sit in cash until it seems like all this sideways stuff is done, but by then, I’ll most likely have missed a big part of the move up.
We want to see the 10dma stay above the 20dma, not the 10dma force closes below it until it crosses beneath the 20dma, this indicates a down trend. It’s close.
I was only expecting a short term pop but it could turn into more if the stock market forces the dollar to break down.
Stock market doesn’t force the Dollar to do anything. Dollar doesn’t trade against the stock market. The Dollar trades against other currencies and they force the Dollar to move up or down.
I’ve written many posts here why the Dollar has already topped and that any greenback rally will just fizzle out, creating another great shorting opportunity.
I’m not sure what the portfolio change is, but I take it you are now out of the Dollar again just to an outside day candle last night in US (I live in Asia)?
Elaine, I feel for you, it’ hard when you think it all turns against you. We have a big yearly correction coming up end of March/April/May time frame. Gary will know when that time comes. At that time take a big position in TGLDX and just let it ride up, You will be riding the bull and making dividends on those funds. TGLDX pays great dividends. Two others recommended to me were GGN and MCP. You know it will go down when we do go down, however you will be continually going up and also making dividends. So you will do fine doing that if you can’t trade constantly.
Elaine, If you can’t be available for short term trades then just take a position and leave it. The bull is going much much higher before this is over.
As long as you can weather drawdowns you will come out just fine. Actually you will probably come out rich.
TGLDX is a great fund, and it’s great advice to Elaine to invest in it, but if I’m not mistaken, what you’re calling dividends are really just distributions — the fund is distributing taxable capital gains. The fund also carries an expense ratio.
Again, it’s a great way to go, but you could just as easily buy GDX or GDXJ or both. The important thing is just to be invested and ride the bull.
gary out of the last few intermediate bottoms the dollar has either retested or crawled along the 20 day ma before taking off. is that what you think we are seeing here
mike, This one has me stumped. On the weekly chart it looks like the dollar has put in an intermediate bottom, but if the stock market continues to rally then we could see another cycle down. I expect it would be a little short since the last one was long.
There will certainly be another intermediate degree correction. I’m assuming the current trade will be another short-term affair unless the dollar cycle fails. If that happens in our trade will probably be 3 to 4 weeks long.
i think everyone was surprised by the strength of todays rebound. the 11:30 selloff in the dollar seemed to coincide with the announcement that the ECB would do a bond swap on their greek debt holdings
Elaine’s problem is related to what I mentioned yesterday to TZ.
Early Feb 2010 was a good entry point and I added to positions at that time.
GDX is up only 22% since then, GDXJ a horrible 12% (but has had large distributions). GLD is up 53%.
Then take a look at the likes of NGD, AG, and SLW. That stresses the importance of picking the right miners. Otherwise it’s better to stick to GLD than miner indexes over the long term. Short to medium term I hope miners do better across the board.
And there is a reason that GDXJ is only up 12%….. there are many juniors that are in the red over that period. I own some of those but they are small speculative positions purchased after they plunged. Overall, dabbling in this category has not been too fruitful yet. Except SBB.TO but that miner is a “winner” long term with a large pull back. JAG is doing well too because of speculation about a buyer.
as for miners, I am absolutely with you, it is a mine field and one has to know so much about mine location and ore body density and stuff like that, it makes my brain fry in its own fat — so the ETF is my choice
but, royalty players have been my faves for individual stocks
Speaking of currencies, I was reading a consensus survey on Forex that a friend at a bank forwarded. It’s mostly not interesting but every currency had a PPP chart.
We all know that PPP will show the dollar to be undervalued against most currencies but this one had long term charts and you can clearly see that JPY move like they should on average over time with great divergences. And it depends on the inputs for PPP and of course this is manipulated data. This one used PPI (producer price index) without explaining the motivation.
Actually, JPY has been in pretty close synch to PPP since the financial crisis in 2008 where its under-valuation disappeared because the carry trade disappeared. It then moved to slight over-valuation.
I note that PPP for JPY is 85 so it’s not that overvalued and it’s a 45 degree angle line going from left to right at 140 in 1992. EUR is actually at 1.25. It was fair value at 1.18 when it started in 1999. Also EUR/CHF is very close to PPP at this time at its rigged level with slight CHF over-valuation. Not that you would think so if you use the Big Mac PPP index!
Oh, it also shows that the Renminbi is fair value based on PPI PPP. Not something Chuck Schumer would like to hear. Japan imports more from China as % of GDP than the US and they don’t whine about currency manipulation. Also, Japan’s trade with China is roughly in balance.
I would like to see someone do PPP analysis using TMS money supply instead….
If you wonder where the USD can appreciate I only see the EUR but once it’s below 1.25 we see PPP over-valuation. I don’t think the yen is going higher. And AUD, NZD and CAD are very over-valued, especially the first two. Also the BRL.
But, I have also preached in the past that the USD index is not a driver of anything else. That’s why I think Gary and others get far too caught up in dollar analysis. It’s a yardstick of market conditions, but it’s like saying that it’s due to the thermometer that it’s cold outside.
Well, it requires a combination of skill and luck to pick the right miners. I have been successful in doing so. My three big buys in Oct/Nov 2008 were NGD, NXG and SLW. NXG was a laggard but patience worked well due to an acquisition last fall. I still have some (as AUQ) in my IRA, which I happened to purchase in Feb 2010 and it is up a modest 30% still outperforming any miner index.
I mean, if you were investing in tech stocks in recent years then you would not have to be clever to focus on Apple rather than QQQ.
Finding the perfect miners is darn near impossible, but I keep on trying! Something always seems to come up–this one buys this junior and the market thinks they overpaid (EGO, AUQ, PAAS, etc), this one has it’s mine shut down and the stock gets crushed (HL, AEM), this one is subject to rumors of nationalization (PAAS, AUY, NG), this one has false rumors spread around about it (SVM).
PS…AGQ outpeformed just about all the red hot miners out of the Dec low. I go with NUGT & AGQ mostly, but hand pick a few too.
Jayhawk, I don’t and haven’t owned anything you mention except AUY. I only have a small position left because I sold in 2010 due to under performance. It’s a good company.
Also some AUQ because of the acquisition but that benefited me. I think AUQ could be a buy for the future based on the NXG acquisition and its undervaluation.
But AUY was probably the best big cap miner in 2011. It’s up 35% over one year while GDX is -5%.
A couple of other miner royalty companies to consider buying and forgetting, other than RGLD and SLW, are Franco-Nevada (FNV.TO) and Sandstorm (SSL.V). Sandstorm closed at new, all-time highs today, run by ex-SLW management.
Want a miner??Look to Nevada and Rye Patch Gold.RPM.V-Do some DD on them and you will find top notch management that’s finding Gold and last fall they claimed a bunch of claims that CDE forgot to pay fee’s on.Good Luck
I hear you, take a look at a daily with the 10dma and 20dma applied, we want to see the 10dma stay above the 20dma, if it crosses below it, not good at this point.
Its definitely possible that what were seeing is nothing more than a bounce off the 150dma, that will be short lived. Gold needs to break above the DC trendline.
Took off my gold long at break even $1730, wait until I see a break above the down trendline, im not liking the fact that the 10dma is ready to cross over the 20dma.
I think we will have a day or two of 10 below 20 just by their rates of change. This will happen either Tuesday or Wednesday. (Monday, the market is closed).
Note that they are both rising now, so its not like the 10 is going below the 20, but rather the 20 is going above the 10. That is the effect of 20 rising much more rapidly at the moment.
But obviously, that is the effect of the past 2/4 weeks. Yesterday’s suspected turnaround has little influence at the moment.
The 10 turned around just today – a few days of gains will increase its rate of ascent.
We never dropped (so far) to my prefered entry below 1700 and I haven’t added anything else like GDX.
I’m just watching with some uncertainty as to what is going on.
Gold is still in a 3-4 week congestion here and I think it could go either way although, like most everyone else, I BELIEVE it’s going higher and I feel like I should up my core holdings or go 1x. (But when I do that without a good entry or stop any declines tend to unsettle me so historically I know I’m not as suited to that and tend to avoid).
Re: RGLD. I looked at the company a number of years ago and did not like what I saw. Can’t remember any details. Its performance is marginally better than GLD over 2 years. Over longer term it has underperformed GLD. So why take the risk? There is risk even with royalty companies. The 5 year chart is +157% for GLD and +121% for RGLD.
Re: PCX. I purchased it right after it listed in Jan 2008. I sold one third when it hit $100 (more than 3X) by early summer a few months later, sold another third around the peak at $150 a week or so later, and the rest at break even a couple of months later. Its chart rivals the likes of PCLN during and post the dotcom era. I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole unless they can sort out their business. I remember that balding gypsy on CNBC was screaming about it back in 2008. It was the #1 mo-mo coal stock.
We have a swing low in gold occurring deep in its timing band for a DCL, and now a swing high in the dollar (if yesterday’s high holds). If gold breaks below $1700 we have a failed DCL and an intermediate cycle will be in play and we should all sell our positions anyway and anticipate a large move lower – perhaps well below $1700.
I know you have a unique trading strategy, but if we one follows cycle analysis we now have a relatively low risk entry point with huge upside.
Markets top on good news and bottom on bad. My 2 cents is Greece gets their buckets of money over the long weekend, world markets rally on Monday & Tuesday while big money dumps to dumb money.
>If your comparing metal with miners, why take the risk with miners at all then.
That has been my point all along, UNTIL the produce results that warrant that higher risk. (Individual stocks outperforming doesn’t count cause you need to hold at least 3-5 to be safe and then you have created your own index which will likely perform close to GDX)
A few miners have out-performed gold by a large margin, especially since end-2008, which is my reference frame. That’s when I changed my investment theme from shorting the financial sector to investing in PMs mostly miners.
I probably should have converted some of my miner profits into gold last year, but that’s to say with hindsight.
I also dabble in some turnaround stories in miners, but that’s quite risky and don’t really recommend it. Only small positions. GSS, JAG, KGN and SBB.TO. Well, the latter does not produce anything yet, but was badly beaten up after the September swoon.
Was travelling fthe whole day…now in the French Alps! Gorgeous! Gary, when are coming to climb the Mont Blanc? I will bake you my famous chocolate cake, very little flour!
Sophia, Until I get my bad knee replaced I probably won’t be climbing any big mountains for a while. I’m trying to keep it going for another year or so. I figure I need at least a year to have a shot at world records.
Training for nationals has just been one injury after another. It’s getting really frustrating.
mikezza said… Out of the last few intermediate bottoms the dollar has either retested or crawled along the 20 day ma before taking off. is that what you think we are seeing here February 16, 2012 6:47 PM
I’m posting to see if this shows up or if I need to post a ” . ” to make posts appear.
Also, been catching up on the comments over the last few weeks and am now curious about the whereabouts of the Alex clubhouse where all the home run hitting occurs.
“mikezza said… Out of the last few intermediate bottoms the dollar has either retested or crawled along the 20 day ma before taking off. is that what you think we are seeing here February 16, 2012 6:47 PM
The dollar bounced off the 20 sma again today.
Hmmmm”
Yup, were seeing the exact opposite with gold, we got a 10dma swoop in effect on the dollar which if the trend is turning back up out of an IC bottom, will cross above the 20dma and support the move higher. Its like a cradle effect.
If one were expecting a trend change here in the $, either because of a recognizable bottom or cycle low, entry would be on the 20dma, This is the 10sma swoop I use on 5 minute gold for scalps.
It’s the Miner bullish% over the $HUI. Both tend to move in the same direction just the bullish% lags. It’s going lower today because the $HUI is dropping. We are in no mans land. Could go either way but the direction today it somewhat telling. Usually doesn’t turn up after it starts to roll over. If it does turn up it’s short lived.
Thanks for your response. I really don’t understand how to interpret that miners bullish index. A few times miners look bearish but it keeps going lower (the GDX and the HUI index).
But then, I really am not good at reading charts regardless.
You guys remember last what? Sept, Oct, Gary had in one of the reports about the large numbers on SOS. Not necassarily huge numbers but a lot of big numbers adding up to a big pile of change. The thought being that the Boyz were packing up their toys and getting ready to leave the party. I`d say their changing oil and checking tires now. The one I really notice is the ratio on the block trades. A very lopsided affair.
It is finny the way Gold and Silver are behaving… When I left London this morning, Gold June was trading 1738, and S&P 1355. While I was travelling, I received a twit from Gann360 mentionning that S&P was touching 1363…imagine my surpirse when I finally reach my PC to realise that Gold was at 1722! very weird action today
Todd, Negative on that. I say bearish. The block traders are taking money off the table and putting almost none on. Letting Joe 6 Pack put it on, they take it off.
And of course there has to be something cotradictory to that. Look at the whoppers on BOW. I think this is why the saying, `Hell is the impossibility of reason`.
Sophia, So far the market is doing what I think it needs to do. It’s holding above the consolidation zone. Miners are a little weaker than I would have liked but the weekly chart looks constructive. Our stop is close so I’m going to let the trade work and see what happens.
I had part of my right knee’s meniscus removed, so switched from climbing to cycling 15 yrs back. Cycling and swimming are the only 2 exercises that are easy on the knees (I’m afraid), according to Dr Mirkin, who is Lance’s sports doctor. And there’s no fixing it, as cartilage doesn’t grow back. Squats don’t hurt my knee for some reason. But the way you Olympic weightlifters throw weights around, I’m not surprised that the knee is super stressed.
I’ve seen that site before and heard that it’s not as accurate as another site, which requires a subscription.
So if none of these max pain numbers were hit, why does ANYONE on this blog care about options expiration? Isn’t it just another day in the park? It seems a totally non-event to me. Please someone educate me otherwise. Thanks.
WW, It appears that gold, silver, and SLW are all going to close within 1% four weeks in a row. Also, todays sell off was the weakest volume sell off in the last 3 weeks. We are going sideways and the volume is drying up. Why do you think we get such a big sell off?
Bill – good point. I think the theory doesn’t work as well when the market is on fire, but that’s just me. Of course if it was that easy everybody would be doing it, too. If you have Thinkorswim you can look at the actual open interest numbers which might be more telling. I checked AAPL yesterday and it looked like 480-490 might be a good target (just from eyeballing it). I’m inclined to follow WW and add one more 1650 or 1675 put option. I have played that game in the past, buying put options a week before opex (futures options expire next week) and done really well. The 1675 is currently $120/160. That would pay off huge in a nice spike down. I already have some in anticipation of selloffs that haven’t materialized, so maybe this time it will work.
Since you expect more downside on Gold, assuming that equities start to fall to their ICL soon, can we still have a continuous D Wave ? Or this option is out of the question, by your experience ?
You know, standing back on a 5 yr daily log chart of $GOLD, given how much gold ran up last year, this correction is pretty small so far. Also the lower highs and lower lows is very prominent. We are definitely still correcting.
Way too early to talk about the D-wave still being in effect. Im not expecting gold to drop hard unless the stock market does, but im prepared for it because of what im seeing. When I recognize my falling fruit pattern it almost always plays out as I expect. If you recall, a couple days ago I mentioned that I was expecting one more day for the branch to form completely before the fruit dropped, we seen it happen. A rallying stock market and the 150dma acted as a floor and gold bounced out of that fall. This pattern is still in effect with today’s down day.
The markets aren’t going anywhere, its better to be safe than sorry. I didn’t like what I was seeing this morning so I got out quick, if I had more time to recognize it I would have posted earlier, I posted as quick as possible.
Right now, especially with this weekend in front of us, gold could go either way hard. I would rather miss some upside than be caught hard to the downside and possibly stuck down there, if a B-wave the draw down is not something im about to hold through with futures.
WW, You alerted me with pleny of time. I have no problems with when you posted. I got up late thinking I did not need to worry about my position. Of course, I was quite wrong. Thanks for your help this week.
Would just like to mention a pattern im looking at on a daily for the bullish case here in gold…
The D-wave has formed a slanted “W” pattern, the break out of the D-wave upper trendline on 1/25 was a technical move resulting in high volume (typical of this pattern’s break of the trendline). We are now in the consolidation stage of the break above the trendline, if one measures from the “W” low (Dec low) extended up to the trendline (neck line), taking that measurement and placing it on top of today we get a target of pretty much a test of the all time highs. A move to the upside from here would then form an inverted H&S pattern.
Danno,
I’ll let you chart it out for us I like your charts, they’re pretty 🙂
On the 5 yr weekly chart of $SILVER, comparing the current correction w/that in 2008, as I did for $GOLD earlier, it looks likee there’s one more big down to go.
I’m starting to think again that the scenario that Gary spelled out, that of the $SPX taking $GOLD down, will in fact happen. Next.
You do not have to keep posting “.” comments to get to page 2 of this blog.
From the main SMT page, click the TITLE of the articles to read them (on a BLUE background).
Do NOT read the article from the main page and then click the “xxx comments” link on the bottom to get to them. This is a MISTAKE and you will then have a BEIGE background and you won’t be able to move from page to page.
Only post comments using pages with BEIGE backgrounds (by clicking “Post a comment” on a blue page.)
READ the blog using pages with BLUE backgrounds by clicking the article TITLE.
It helps to keep TWO tabs open in your browser: one being the blue background page you READ from. The other being the beige ‘post a comment’ page only for posting.
If you don’t listen to me you will keep having this problem. AND everytime you want to read new comments on the beige page (like most of you are doing) you have to hit refesh and then scroll to the bottom. You don’t have to do that on the blue pages.
Sounds fantastic, you’ve got me wishing I was back. – it was very cold when I was there – minus 30 one day! But the alpine cheese, Ham and wine helped take the edge off
Catching up on the board here in London, and wishing my mentors in the States (and elsewhere) a happy holiday. Good luck with your surgery, you are remembered in my prayers.
And you know gold is supposed to drop to $1640 why?
A normal DCL should have moved consistently down by now and should be generating fear. This one has been consolidating instead. Friday would’ve been the 34th day of the daily cycle.
Seems kind of late to all of a sudden drop 100 points, especially with the market showing no signs of topping, especially after completely ignoring the break in Apple.
“Greyerz – Gold to Begin a Major Advance Starting Next Week”
If the slanted “W” pattern that I spotted continues to play out gold will certainly start a major advance to test the highs. This type of pattern does break down though at times, and when it does it usually breaks hard, falling fruit.
Here is a chart showing Gold’s ABCD waves. It depicts that during the D-Wave there is a 1-2-3 pattern (down-up-down). So far, we have gotten the 1-2 (down-up). Possibility of a 3 reversal down to come.
Gary, DOC, and my system all seem to point to strength ahead for gold. I’m waiting final confirmation for my system to go to a buy, and will post updated #’s once gold opens on Comex tonight.
In the weekend report I said I think gold will likely break higher also. It’s had every chance to break down and it just hasn’t done it. Now it’s getting too late in the daily cycle to expect another hard move down.
Keep in mind that we have futures options expiring next week and need to be ready for shenanigans while keeping our heads straight.Some new studies I’m undertaking are also pointing to strength dead ahead.
FYI, for all who are interersted; SLV, SLW, and GLD are all showing consolidation per my trade signals. I am and have been long all three. The miners are starting to break out here and there.
I still am placing trades and am biased towards volatility turning up.
My preferred method of buying is pullbacks, but we never got one after the ‘recognition move’ on the 25th and I agree with gary (and others) that we’ve had time to drop and don’t seem able to.
>Keep in mind that we have futures options expiring next week…
Options expire each month, true. But only SOME months are large ‘delivery’ months (although someone can take delivery in any month).
There are only some months with large volume and hence large options open interest too. (It is based on the specifications of the contract and when each month is ‘opened’ for trading).
Anyone who trades futures realizes a stop is absolutely necessary. Veronica is merely indicating the results of this system. If anyone trading futures does not know that, they deserve what they get. No need to be so critical. Good call on the 4x trade, I believe this will be above 1740 before we wake up.
I went long at the open but I don’t like it, will add above 1741, and like even less. Must mean a turn upwards cause my gut is always wrong. Have to be emotionless for this. I have stops.
Started clicking on the post text TZ so not have to post .
I love to see Veronica’s trading signal on Futures. Stops should be the most basic risk management skill in everyone’s investment strategy.
If someone trades without his/her own stops by playing Futures, then it’s already a miracle that he/she still exists in the investment world without blowing up his/her account.
Each year the US breaches its debt ceiling at a record pace. Debt is rising faster relative to the growth of gross domestic product (GDP). In the last four years alone, national debt has risen by $6.1 trillion and has been accompanied by a $96 billion rise in real GDP.
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Gary,
I don’t post here much, but I have been your subscriber for years – longer than most people on the board.
I have to say that ALEX has been posting his trades in near real time for a long time and has been scary good. There is no need for you to be so testy and cancel his subscription.
You have to admit that several people have made much better calls in the past few months.
Several people here use cycles to supplement their styles – not everyone trades exactly as the model portfolio.
And a lot of those people are using what you have been teaching – the cycles methodology to arrive at different conclusions than you.
This for instance – yesterday, gold had a swing low in the timing band. The last daily cycle was right translated. The most likely outcome here is there will be a second daily cycle and will exceed the previous highs.
Your scenario may turn out to be right. But this is the most probable one using cycles theory.
You may say we are in the D wave or B wave. But the fact is you’ve called a D wave and rescinded it at least 4 times since the silver collapse last year. Forget the dollar index for a moment as all currencies are being devalued and its a measure against them.
You should encourage comments here, not discourage them.
at ease,
If gold moves above yesterday’s high I will most likely go long. Took off my short this morning, just waiting now.
WW, what if gold closes above 1729 and has a bullish tail?
btw, I did make depresssion prediction number 12
I’m assuming you are now NOT expecting this market to move down into an immediate low?
Never said that. I said I would try another short term trade.
Todd,
Gold closes above the 10dma I will be long.
W2,
You don’t seem as extatic as the others about getting long here…what is bothering you about the setup?
cool. Thx WW
at ease,
I meant to say above yesterday’s close.
“If gold moves above yesterday’s high I will most likely go long. Took off my short this morning, just waiting now.”
Sophia,
I never get extatic either way, I am emotionless 🙂
Only show emotions when you’re terrorizing nurses?
Miyagi,
I do get excited here and there, but for some reason its only when im short 🙂
Definitely nothing exciting about being around nurses, they use me as a pin cushion!
You’re doing pretty good WW, I have zip emotions most times (99%) with money and the market.
Huge contrast to when I started 10 years ago, sweating, heart beating all that jazz..
“Never said that. I said I would try another short term trade.”
So you are doing a short term trade against your intermediate term projections? In the past, you have noted that you think it’s always best to simply ride the bigger picture instead of catching every little wiggle.
Got it WW!
BTW, Miyagi-sensei, I should have listened to you this morning…you say ” careful not to sell too much today”…You have been calling the daily moves pretty right from your hotel room!
Eric,
We’ve been catching little wiggles since May.
Thanks sophia,
It’s a collective community here, everyone has good information.
I can’t wait to be out of hotels and in a house, this is getting old…
Anyone need a house-sitter in an expensive city?
Eric,
The fact the the stock market didn’t break down like we were expecting was one of the determining factors of taking the trade today.
me……….
Aren’t you in London?
yes…you said, expensive city LOL
Fair enough.
In last night’s report, you stated the following:
“If that correction moves below the January 30 intraday low we will have a left translated and failed daily cycle in progress, which is what I have been anticipating.”
If you expect the IT low to come in March, do you still anticipate it to be left translated?
London’s about as expensive as it gets I hear. You’re renting out during the Olympics?
At the risk of a shitstorm…
Alex you nailed it (again) 🙂
no, I am too nice for that…I am letting friends use my place…
friends… hmm.. I’ll keep that in mind when we get around to London…?? heh heh
LOL @ MrMiyagi
MrMiyagi, I have few cow sheds outside
Like a manger? I’m no Jeebus!
.
Ver,
This is what I sent out to the aggressive portfolio members first thing this morning.
“The miners are right on the trend line this morning for anyone that wanted to take a shot at that trade.”
I was only expecting a short term pop but it could turn into more if the stock market forces the dollar to break down.
Allright.. wife says get off the laptop, time to go look at houses.
I think positive markets untill Tuesday seeing this Greek moneybleeding is on Monday but I’ll see later at the close.
They were already prepared for it last night.
Keep in mind, if Gold does have another DC higher we can see a test of the C-wave highs and the A-wave still be intact…which means we possibly still have a B-wave ahead of us.
Unknown:
I’ll push back on one part of your assessment. The last several trades of Gary’s trades have been anything but “buy and sit back with low risk”. Virtually every entry and exit into and out of GDX is highly sensitive to the timing of Gary’s real-time calls. Minutes and some times seconds make for a 1-3% difference.
Now, Gary has done a good job of picking when to be in and out so there’s zero criticism about the quality of the trades and recommendations, but it’s totally false that you don’t have to be quick and attentive to make money alongside him in the “post C-wave” era.
Good call Gary, you nailed it too then 🙂 I don’t have any visibility into the aggressive portfolio. But you’re clearly building an excellent read on trading the HUI.
By the way ,y comment to Alex wasn’t a backhanded insult to you, it was throwing some love Alex’s way since he’s one of the few others besides you who consistently sticks his neck out with turning point calls.
SPY and AAPL on SoS list as of 1:17 pm
My falling fruit pattern played out on point, and the 150dma acted as a floor…I would be suprised if gold doesn’t move into a new DC higher now.
ver-
I wouldn’t touch GDX with a barge pole. Way more correlated with the stock market than with gold. I only own and trade gold bullion.
SPX breaking out above the July high.
NY spot gold just went green after being down $24 on the open. Gold looking stronger than an onion sandwich right now.
This comment has been removed by the author.
Unknown:
That’s a funny mental image 🙂 Well I won’t disagree with you on that. Sticking to gold here as well for the foreseeable future, especially with the stock market pushing the upside the way it is. Never ends pretty.
Thank you VER
And there are some nice “T/A ” patterns shaping up that usually indicate ‘reversal’.
Bullish engulfing off bottoms in SLW, AUY , FSM,GDX, GDXJ, NUGT, etc
And UUP has a bearish engulfing .
This is if they close at current prices or better. good volume buying too. ALSO some bull flags tight on wkly chart (SLW for ex:)
Nice calls Alex. I have not paid much attention to many of the comments here, but I will look forward to reading more about your thoughts from now on.
everyone no complaining! these little daily arguments aren’t going to mean anything when gold/silver doubles/tirples/quads up, and we’ve traded it all the way to the top. thanks gary, alex, ww, poly and anyone else who is a professional and shares their opinion to the non-pros. you guys are great and there are 1000s of people here who don’t say anything who really appreciate everything you guys do — especially gary!
gary,
“it is a mark of an educated man to entertain a thought without accepting it”: aristotle
In a previous post I detailed my levels for a gold DCL…
First – 150dma
Second – Fibonacci levels
Third – 50dma
Forth – 200dma
I mentioned in that same post that the bottom would almost certainly be marked by a reversal off an MA and close at or above the prior supporting MA that was breached (the 20dma in this case).
Barring something crazy today should mark the DCL.
WW:
Sorry to ask you this again but which close do you mean? Do you put a ton of weight in the precise closing price or treat it as a rough guide. The strength we’re seeing here makes it tempting to pre-empt the close.
If the SPX is sold off into this breakout of the July high, and drags gold down with it, or gold decides it needs to take out the 150dma, we keep an eye on those levels I mentioned below it.
Ver,
When I see a move above yesterday’s close $1730, gold will have moved back above the 10dma, I will put on the long with a stop below the 20dma.
See the 20dma was actually pretty tough support yesterday and last night, looking at a daily chart now seems as if gold just blew through it both up and down. This is what I was refering to when I was talking about certain MA’s looking ineffective at different times.
Since Alex won’t toot his own horn I want to tell everyone that Alex told me and several other traders that we hang out with that today was likely to be a great buying opportunity for gold and miners BEFORE the market opened.
Here’s a line from a message that Alex sent to us at 6:17 AM Pacific Time (9:17 ET) this morning (13 minutes before the market opened):
“$1703 was my target for Gold, but the way Miners are lined up…I am thinking that we will see a buy on Miners today (Gap down open) and gold will turn up.”
Based on that message from Alex, and watching the market action this morning, I bought NUGT at $20.75. Right now it’s at $22.95
Thanks Alex!
The other trader I follow is another long-time poster here on the SMT blog that many of you will recognize, he goes by the nickname “BobLovesHawaii”
Bob has been KILLING it lately and he posts his trades on Twitter @BobLovesHawaii
Meanwhile, I will continue to subscribe to Gary’s premium service because I like his cycles commentary and market insight.
As I posted the other day you can never have too many good investing ideas.
Gary is good, Alex is good, BobLovesHawaii is good … and they all have different trading styles.
Now, as Rodney King once said, “Can’t we all just get along.”
WW:
Thanks. I’m seeing that GC made an intraday high of 1730.5, which is why I ask about if/how you honor where it closes today (vs. just the intraday price action alone). Obviously we have yet to push through *and* hold above the 10 DMA which may be why you are still in waiting and seeing mode.
Agree the 20 DMA went from a rock to soup between yesterday and today. Why then set it as your stop level vs. a more firm MA like the 150? I know that’s a much looser stop but at the same time the sudden ineffectiveness of the 20 could result in a quick whipsaw.
Whoops!
I just went back to the previous post and saw that Alex posted the same message HERE this morning!
So you all had the same info I did.
Way to go Alex!
For those of you who don’t know, Alex is a full-time professional stock trader (like Gary) so he is very generous to share his valuable insights here.
Thanks again!
Ver,
The 20dma will be hard support again, especially now. Im long now, you see the breakout of yesterday’s high now.
Grrr I keep saying that…I meant breakout of yesterday’s close!
Spot gold 1730 seems to be resistance.
Oops, just saw that WW just said the same thing just above. Sorry I just woke up.
My target for a new DC and A-wave top is the C-wave upper trendline, around $1873. If we got the dollar topping here on day 5 that shouldn’t be a problem.
On the 60 min chart, GDX just filled the gap left on last Thurs the 9th.
I’m not so sure GLD/GDX are going up here … I think WW’s right about 1730 gold, which is still holding.
Bill,
I was thinking the same…Gold hasn’t moved since last week..It will very soon, most probably up but who knows…If the rally on the USD, we are still at the same price as last Friday
Nobody complimented me….I could start a paying website with my comment this morning
Sophia said
Riley,
Thank you but it was William who gave me the guts to short on Monday….and since I saw the rally above 1740 after the fact, I was lucky enough to keep it….But we shall see how far it goes, it seems that everybody is ready to jump on bioard at 1680, so I am not sure we will even get to 1700!
February 15, 2012 11:52 PM
I AM JUST TEASING !!!!!!!
No kidding Alex, that was a great call!
Hi Sophia, yea it’s tricky.
I’m now eyeing 170 GLD again. A close above that would definitely cause me to go long.
UUP still looks like it’s going up to me. Yes today’s candle and volume look horrific, but so did Jan 4th, after which price went up. The daily MACD is definitely up on UUP.
170 GLD is my line in the sand.
I honor of Alex, I’ve named every one of my children after him. All 8 of them. It gets confusing.
Sophia, you’re a GREAT trader! You shorted gold, and then went for a walk in the park with your kids. Now that takes major kahuna’s! You’d be a great air traffic controller.
Bill,
there are priority in life! Hope Tokyo is not too freezing that time of the year!
Gary,
“the stock market forcing the dollar to go down..” I always assumed that it was the dollar that drove the market and not vice versa..
In anycase, just wanted to let you know that your thoughts on the dollar strengthening will probably not happen… Also, you need to see without bias my friend
Something smells fishy here…Monday is Bank Holiday in the US…How will people keep their long trades over a 3 days weekend? I will be ver surprised to see a strong rally into Friday…
Today’s high in the $SPX has neg div on the daily RSI, SStoch and CCI. And AAPL didn’t make a higher high, and also has neg div. It’s a top. The dollar will rise, gold fall, and Gary’s right. Me thinks.
Gary,
Since you have said the GDX trade is short-term, how long do you NOW expect it will be before the stock market rolls over?
The market seems to want to keep grinding higher despite (or maybe because of) expectations of a big drop.
Alex and others have speculated that the stock market could keep grinding higher for a couple months with just mild pullbacks, similar to what it did in 2010.
No one called all this better than Doc, IMHO, and after all the s**t he took here, here’s what he had to say when someone on his site congratulated him for winning anohter burrito bet:
“As I’ve said before, Gary is a smart guy, and I knew he would get on board at the moment of truth. He just pulled off a successful dollar trade and then bought GDX at very favorable prices, so I’m not so sure I won anything.’
Very classy IMHO.
With all the liquidity being provided from the biggest central banks, I’d wager we see the grind higher with only short term pullbacks (albeit scary ones):
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/while-you-were-sleeping-central-banks-flooded-world-liquidity
TheDoc is definitely classy.
This market is tricky, that’s all there is to it.
Top physicists from MIT and Oxford with IQ’s > 200 don’t agree on a lot of stuff, so I think it’s normal for smart folks to disagree sometimes.
One thing they all agree on is, when the market starts to trend they all get on board. At least that’s how I see it.
slw_fiend,
thanks for posting that. It’s a good reminder for those of us who stayed long PM’s during their move into their DCL, while Gary did the prudent thing and closed his PM positions and went long the dollar. Short term trade yes. But he made money on the UUP trade. AND he gets back into the PM trade at a better price. Hard to argue with that kind of success.
Gold still hasn’t even closed back above the 10dma yet, make sure those stops are in place.
WW,
I have the 10dma at 1726.5…am I wrong?
WW,
Where are your about are your stops I was thinking $3 under the 20 dma
About 3 weeks ago Todd Harrison of Minnyanville said told Aaron Task at Yahoo that he expected the market to have a ‘gut check’ at 1360.
WW,
I am showing spot gold with a 10dma at 1726.24 with the current price at 1728.56. Does that count or should I pay more attention to April futures?
Revision: I’ll go long GLD when spot $GOLD goes above 1739.20, yesterday’s high.
I think WW said this yesterday, correct WW?
Also, it still strikes me as major important that AAPL didn’t make a higher high today – AAPL is the market LEADER and MAKER. W/out leadership, this is all suspect. Just saying.
sophia:
I’ve got it at 1729.5, where it continues in aftermarket flirtations with /GC.
🙂
Sophia,
10dma is at $1729.50 Gold futures.
Todd,
That should be fine, when an MA holds it holds. If gold is headed higher the 20dma should hold tight, as it was last night before gold finally breached it.
Danno
And Tom Demark said he’d go short at 1370
Alex,
May I send you an email? If so please email me at [email protected]
Thanks and best wishes,
Michael
ver & W2, thank you!
I know, I feel a bit dumb, but to be long now ahead of the long w/e feels for me like betting the bank. Flat will be better for me….
Bill,
Thats correct, but that was before I seen gold drop to the 150dma and put in a strong reversal (although it was SPX driven), so I changed my entry today to a bit below that which was a breakout of yesterday’s close and a move above where the 10dma is today. Yesterday the 10dma was at $1732.60, today $1729.60. I also have a close stop at the 20dma, which if gold is to follow through off this reversal and 150dma bottom, it shouldn’t move back below the 20dma unless the SPX drills it below it.
Sophia
Yea I know, the risk of a “gap down Tuesday” would be scary. Have to see how Friday at the close plays out.
SF,
Indeed…and even if we don’t have a big gap down, the markets have rallied so much in the last 6 weeks that if people think that a positive outcome is reached it will rally 5-8% they are dreaming!
Back in May 2010, when the ECB floaded the markets, the European markets were down 15% and rallied for 1/2 day by 10%…Now, we have rallied, so it really doesn’t make sense…
Sophia,
If we were close to a TOP in the metals/miners I would be nervous holding over a 3-day weekend, but most of us now assume that we are near a BOTTOM for miners and the PM’s so I will hold FULLY loaded over the long weekend.
If you look at what happened last month after a 3-day holiday weekend, GLD gapped UP on Tuesday Jan 17.
I’m just sayin’
Sophia
Plus there’s been spy SOS all week. It just feels like one big bull trap.
Everyone on the blogs are bullish and you know what happens when everyone is thinking the same thing…
GHI,
sure…I am pretty thick, so I will wait…I agree with you that miners are the way to go, but ultimately they will follow the S&P first, so close to a top of the broad market I am suspicious…
But, of course,I am sure that if I don’t take the trade, it will be a mega winner, ah ah ah…LOL
Ver,
Just following up on your earlier question about why the 20dma and not the 150dma for my stop…if I believe that today’s reversal will indeed see some follow through (depends on SPX follow through also), gold should hit resistance first at the $1725 handle, second the 20dma at $1722, and then the $1720 handle, my stop is below second and third resistance at $1719, so if my stop is hit I would think gold is going to breach the 150dma this time around and rather be out before then with a small loss. If I did happen to get whipsawed , gold is not going anywhere without me if it plans on blasting off afterwards.
WW, I’ve turned on all the SMA’s you noted, and I see what you’re saying. Very interesting. Up until now I’ve been using EMA’s as triggers; but I do also see now that SMA’s act as support/resistance.
At the moment, GDX, SLV and SIL are all below the 10d SMA, and GLD is only 0.10 above it, so to me a breakout is not confirmed yet, despite the candles.
Bill,
Thats why I said earlier “gold still hasn’t even closed above the 10dma, make sure stops are in place”. The SPX rolls over deep and gold will almost certainly take out the 150dma.
W2,
and my little barometer, IPT is not moving….
Bill,
Gold futures may still close below the 10dma today, but it really all boils down to what the SPX does from here, unless there is a complete decoupling as we seen on Feb 3rd.
WW, I’ve been following your posts for awhile without comment and want you to know that I appreciate your input. I have a question though, How are you deciding what sma’s to use?
And why?
Getting pretty stretched up here. Should be interesting to see how equities pan out next few months. I still think PMs will pull back further…but its just too tricky to initiate anything at this point.
Mike,
I use SMA’s that have proven to be historically effective (in realtime also), ie. the 150dma was extremely effective in halting basically every intermediate cycle decline throughout the last C-wave, but was pretty much meaningless in halting IC declines prior. Several MA’s are effective at different points in history, within cycles, and on shorter time frames also. Many of the pivots you see on a chart, whether it be a monthly, weekly, daily, hourly, 5 minute…are created by MA’s.
WW,
As its 10dma is declining Gold is likely to open above it by default in the new session. No need to pierce through it.
By the same token, silver may open below its rising 20dma (presently above it).
Interesting to see how they play out overnight.
Yup that is exactly what is going to happen, gold futures closed above the 10dma though. In the past I pointed that out to Miyagi, gold closed above the 10dma, opened below it and it acted as resistance. But thats not to say it will have any effect other than short term.
S&P 500 faces big test below 1368
200 SMA on 5 min GC is around 1722 and rising – good place to add, WW?
Looks like the 10dma for Gold has now reversed and it went higher, albeit negligibly. GC closed and opened just high enough that it stayed above the 10dma.
Silver on the other hand did what was predicted and opened below now below the rising 20dma.
WW:
Thanks, makes sense. Though the 20 DMA is trending up and is at 1726 now, so if it is supposed to show strong support then just under 1726 makes for quite a nice tight stop.
GottaHaveIt
“Alex is a full-time professional stock trader”
What do you mean by professional? Someone who trade for institution?
Don,
Re: Alex
I meant that Alex trades stocks full-time for his living. He does not have a regular “job” he lives off his stock trading investment returns. He does not manage money for anybody else.
Same goes for BobLovesHawaii.
They both make their living trading stocks … so they HAVE to be good, otherwise they don’t eat and can’t pay their mortgage!
Ver,
Yup at 1726 at the open now, it’s above 1725 support now, today it was below it, so if it acts as strong support now as it did last night gold should hold above 1725. Although gold may penetrate the 20dma it will look to close above the 20 as it supports the move higher.
Harry,
If the 20dma holds gold should trade sideways if anything until the 200sma on a 5 min catches up.
Yeah GC is basically milling around while the 10 SMA on the hourly chart “catches up”. Actually, looks like a bear flag waiting for a match to be lit under it.
Here’s what I have learned over the past 24 months since finding this blog. 2010 was awesome and I made a bunch of money following Gary. Since the silver crash, I have been killed an given most of it back because I can’t sit in front of the computer and trade all day long. I have basically given up and will probably just sit in cash until it seems like all this sideways stuff is done, but by then, I’ll most likely have missed a big part of the move up.
Oh, well.
Elaine,
It would be better to hold a core “Old Turkey” style, then turn off your computer and walk away.
Figure out what percentage of your assets you’re willing to hold for the duration, be it 50% or whatever.
If you go entirely to cash, you will panic-buy back in at the top of whatever wave we have next, then panic out again on a big decline.
Owning 0% is as radical as owning 100%, IMO.
David,
Thank you. You’re probably right. Feeling a bit frustrated right now.
We want to see the 10dma stay above the 20dma, not the 10dma force closes below it until it crosses beneath the 20dma, this indicates a down trend. It’s close.
I was only expecting a short term pop but it could turn into more if the stock market forces the dollar to break down.
Stock market doesn’t force the Dollar to do anything. Dollar doesn’t trade against the stock market. The Dollar trades against other currencies and they force the Dollar to move up or down.
I’ve written many posts here why the Dollar has already topped and that any greenback rally will just fizzle out, creating another great shorting opportunity.
I’m not sure what the portfolio change is, but I take it you are now out of the Dollar again just to an outside day candle last night in US (I live in Asia)?
WW,
WW heart beats MAs,
no emotion in those MAs 😉
Thanks WW if you are strong long, let me know. 🙂
Elaine, I feel for you, it’ hard when you think it all turns against you. We have a big yearly correction coming up end of March/April/May time frame. Gary will know when that time comes. At that time take a big position in TGLDX and just let it ride up, You will be riding the bull and making dividends on those funds. TGLDX pays great dividends. Two others recommended to me were GGN and MCP. You know it will go down when we do go down, however you will be continually going up and also making dividends. So you will do fine doing that if you can’t trade constantly.
Elaine,
If you can’t be available for short term trades then just take a position and leave it. The bull is going much much higher before this is over.
As long as you can weather drawdowns you will come out just fine. Actually you will probably come out rich.
Gold futures above 1740 will put my system to a buy.
A push into 1740s would also make a higher high and break the daily cycle downtrend line. All eyes open…
at ease,
I am strong long from $1730 today, a break of the DC down trendline and I will add.
Thanks Veronica, Ver and WW!
Good to know and what I have been waiting a long time for. 🙂
WW, can you let me know when you add?
Thanks, will add another contract.
WW, you have to set up your own letter
…at ease,
TGLDX is a great fund, and it’s great advice to Elaine to invest in it, but if I’m not mistaken, what you’re calling dividends are really just distributions — the fund is distributing taxable capital gains. The fund also carries an expense ratio.
Again, it’s a great way to go, but you could just as easily buy GDX or GDXJ or both. The important thing is just to be invested and ride the bull.
Thanks David, I didn’t realize they were not dividends, all my funds are in retirement accounts.
gary
out of the last few intermediate bottoms the dollar has either retested or crawled along the 20 day ma before taking off. is that what you think we are seeing here
mike,
This one has me stumped. On the weekly chart it looks like the dollar has put in an intermediate bottom, but if the stock market continues to rally then we could see another cycle down. I expect it would be a little short since the last one was long.
S&P made a yearly cycle low in October
That takes precedence over mid-term and daily cycles
1260-1280 is first area of real support, 1250 after that and I bet a sandwich and a soft drink that next intermediate low will be a higher low
We have had a yearly cycle late 2011 and it is just forcing the technicals from a larger frame of action
Yes the intermediate cycle is extremely right translated. The odds are very high the next correction will hold above the Oct. low.
But that does not mean that one should sit in an take the punishment of an IC correction 🙂
One either sells/reduces into strength and set the remainder on trailing stops — 1330-1340 is lowers I would set for stop at this point
There will certainly be another intermediate degree correction. I’m assuming the current trade will be another short-term affair unless the dollar cycle fails. If that happens in our trade will probably be 3 to 4 weeks long.
i think everyone was surprised by the strength of todays rebound. the 11:30 selloff in the dollar seemed to coincide with the announcement that the ECB would do a bond swap on their greek debt holdings
Elaine’s problem is related to what I mentioned yesterday to TZ.
Early Feb 2010 was a good entry point and I added to positions at that time.
GDX is up only 22% since then, GDXJ a horrible 12% (but has had large distributions). GLD is up 53%.
Then take a look at the likes of NGD, AG, and SLW. That stresses the importance of picking the right miners. Otherwise it’s better to stick to GLD than miner indexes over the long term. Short to medium term I hope miners do better across the board.
And there is a reason that GDXJ is only up 12%….. there are many juniors that are in the red over that period. I own some of those but they are small speculative positions purchased after they plunged. Overall, dabbling in this category has not been too fruitful yet. Except SBB.TO but that miner is a “winner” long term with a large pull back. JAG is doing well too because of speculation about a buyer.
ahh if only we had a crystal ball and could know before hand which miners are the “right ones”.
I think the trading cycle happened on Dec 30, I have heard Tim Wood thinks it was on Dec 13, but that just does not fit momentum and breadth profile
If I am right, Early March may have the trading cycle and the intermediate cycle aligned for a low
I am hoping index can drive higher to drag as many as possible and squeeze the shorts clean. That can usually get some fireworks when everybody’s in
Gary,
as for miners, I am absolutely with you, it is a mine field and one has to know so much about mine location and ore body density and stuff like that, it makes my brain fry in its own fat — so the ETF is my choice
but, royalty players have been my faves for individual stocks
RGLD, load the boat and go to sleep.
Speaking of currencies, I was reading a consensus survey on Forex that a friend at a bank forwarded. It’s mostly not interesting but every currency had a PPP chart.
We all know that PPP will show the dollar to be undervalued against most currencies but this one had long term charts and you can clearly see that JPY move like they should on average over time with great divergences. And it depends on the inputs for PPP and of course this is manipulated data. This one used PPI (producer price index) without explaining the motivation.
Actually, JPY has been in pretty close synch to PPP since the financial crisis in 2008 where its under-valuation disappeared because the carry trade disappeared. It then moved to slight over-valuation.
I note that PPP for JPY is 85 so it’s not that overvalued and it’s a 45 degree angle line going from left to right at 140 in 1992. EUR is actually at 1.25. It was fair value at 1.18 when it started in 1999. Also EUR/CHF is very close to PPP at this time at its rigged level with slight CHF over-valuation. Not that you would think so if you use the Big Mac PPP index!
Oh, it also shows that the Renminbi is fair value based on PPI PPP. Not something Chuck Schumer would like to hear. Japan imports more from China as % of GDP than the US and they don’t whine about currency manipulation. Also, Japan’s trade with China is roughly in balance.
I would like to see someone do PPP analysis using TMS money supply instead….
If you wonder where the USD can appreciate I only see the EUR but once it’s below 1.25 we see PPP over-valuation. I don’t think the yen is going higher. And AUD, NZD and CAD are very over-valued, especially the first two. Also the BRL.
But, I have also preached in the past that the USD index is not a driver of anything else. That’s why I think Gary and others get far too caught up in dollar analysis. It’s a yardstick of market conditions, but it’s like saying that it’s due to the thermometer that it’s cold outside.
Moody’s Warns Big Banks of Possible Credit Rating Cuts
Well, it requires a combination of skill and luck to pick the right miners. I have been successful in doing so. My three big buys in Oct/Nov 2008 were NGD, NXG and SLW. NXG was a laggard but patience worked well due to an acquisition last fall. I still have some (as AUQ) in my IRA, which I happened to purchase in Feb 2010 and it is up a modest 30% still outperforming any miner index.
I mean, if you were investing in tech stocks in recent years then you would not have to be clever to focus on Apple rather than QQQ.
p.s. RGLD is +63% vs. +53% over 2 years.
Finding the perfect miners is darn near impossible, but I keep on trying! Something always seems to come up–this one buys this junior and the market thinks they overpaid (EGO, AUQ, PAAS, etc), this one has it’s mine shut down and the stock gets crushed (HL, AEM), this one is subject to rumors of nationalization (PAAS, AUY, NG), this one has false rumors spread around about it (SVM).
PS…AGQ outpeformed just about all the red hot miners out of the Dec low. I go with NUGT & AGQ mostly, but hand pick a few too.
Jayhawk, I don’t and haven’t owned anything you mention except AUY. I only have a small position left because I sold in 2010 due to under performance. It’s a good company.
Also some AUQ because of the acquisition but that benefited me. I think AUQ could be a buy for the future based on the NXG acquisition and its undervaluation.
But AUY was probably the best big cap miner in 2011. It’s up 35% over one year while GDX is -5%.
WW,
I am going to take your advice and at the next top, sell off some TGLDX and buy some RGLD or use the profits to buy RGLD.
Elaine… you see this one…RGLD per WW.
A couple of other miner royalty companies to consider buying and forgetting, other than RGLD and SLW, are Franco-Nevada (FNV.TO) and Sandstorm (SSL.V). Sandstorm closed at new, all-time highs today, run by ex-SLW management.
Thanks MM, will look at those also. 🙂
The year before AUY didn’t do much and I kept buying it and watching it do nothing (2010) only to see it finally break out with out me.
RGLD is not worth buying relative to GLD, in my opinion.
Sandstorm has been on my radar but never pulled trigger.
Frank, why is that GLD over RGLD long term hold?
Remember this $USD projection I drew over a month ago? I have not edited the chart since. Note the purple dotted line.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$USD&p=D&yr=1&mn=10&dy=0&id=p67572198947&a=243271916
To be fair, here is another dotted line that exceeded my expectations. Of course that’s why it was ‘dotted’. It was only a guess.
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$GOLD&p=D&yr=1&mn=9&dy=0&id=p61311286585&a=241643000
Want a miner??Look to Nevada and Rye Patch Gold.RPM.V-Do some DD on them and you will find top notch management that’s finding Gold and last fall they claimed a bunch of claims that CDE forgot to pay fee’s on.Good Luck
Good morning, watch for the coal stocks to break out. bull flags on PCX and JRCC.
http://arum-geld-gold.blogspot.com/2012/02/watch-coal.html
Some details
Bob Loves Hawaii,
Coal is back to the bottom and is sooo unloved.
It may make sense to have a speculative position?
Thank you for sharing this.
Looks like both companies are losing money.
I have to say I’m still wary of gold at this point. I expected a stronger bounce out of a DCL with the dollar dropping nearly a full point.
The ‘flag’ in gold some have mentioned is not a flag. It’s a nothing. You can’t call it a flag until price closes above the upper trendline. Just FYI.
Harry,
I hear you, take a look at a daily with the 10dma and 20dma applied, we want to see the 10dma stay above the 20dma, if it crosses below it, not good at this point.
Its definitely possible that what were seeing is nothing more than a bounce off the 150dma, that will be short lived. Gold needs to break above the DC trendline.
Took off my gold long at break even $1730, wait until I see a break above the down trendline, im not liking the fact that the 10dma is ready to cross over the 20dma.
WW,
I think we will have a day or two of 10 below 20 just by their rates of change. This will happen either Tuesday or Wednesday. (Monday, the market is closed).
Note that they are both rising now, so its not like the 10 is going below the 20, but rather the 20 is going above the 10. That is the effect of 20 rising much more rapidly at the moment.
But obviously, that is the effect of the past 2/4 weeks. Yesterday’s suspected turnaround has little influence at the moment.
The 10 turned around just today – a few days of gains will increase its rate of ascent.
Thats always the case at tops though.
If gold is indeed still topping, the 10dma is moving below the 20dma.
Looks like a bounce off the 20, at least for now.
I have no problem waiting for gold to break above the DC down trendline at $1740.
Gold loses the 20dma again and the 10dma is going to be drilled below the 20dma, the makings of trend change.
Were seeing the exact opposite with the dollar index.
Well that was fun…….
WW,
You´re truly amazing!!!
“Listening” to your comments on markets moves is like watching a soccer game!!!! lol. Emotion and action every minute.
Keep your fantastic work, giving us more and more lessons about trading.
Thks for your kind.
Same with the death cross (50dma crossing below the 200dma). I know Danno is eyeballing it.
lol
We never dropped (so far) to my prefered entry below 1700 and I haven’t added anything else like GDX.
I’m just watching with some uncertainty as to what is going on.
Gold is still in a 3-4 week congestion here and I think it could go either way although, like most everyone else, I BELIEVE it’s going higher and I feel like I should up my core holdings or go 1x. (But when I do that without a good entry or stop any declines tend to unsettle me so historically I know I’m not as suited to that and tend to avoid).
Man that gold sure takes a toll when hitting that 150 dma on the 2 hour gold chart.
Equity options expiring today are going to jerk things around so I’m not sure much of the action can be trusted today anyway-up or down.
The ‘big move soon’ I was mentioning will probably happen after today’s close and the options are gone.
Re: RGLD. I looked at the company a number of years ago and did not like what I saw. Can’t remember any details. Its performance is marginally better than GLD over 2 years. Over longer term it has underperformed GLD. So why take the risk? There is risk even with royalty companies. The 5 year chart is +157% for GLD and +121% for RGLD.
Re: PCX. I purchased it right after it listed in Jan 2008. I sold one third when it hit $100 (more than 3X) by early summer a few months later, sold another third around the peak at $150 a week or so later, and the rest at break even a couple of months later. Its chart rivals the likes of PCLN during and post the dotcom era. I wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole unless they can sort out their business. I remember that balding gypsy on CNBC was screaming about it back in 2008. It was the #1 mo-mo coal stock.
TZ(8155),
We have a swing low in gold occurring deep in its timing band for a DCL, and now a swing high in the dollar (if yesterday’s high holds). If gold breaks below $1700 we have a failed DCL and an intermediate cycle will be in play and we should all sell our positions anyway and anticipate a large move lower – perhaps well below $1700.
I know you have a unique trading strategy, but if we one follows cycle analysis we now have a relatively low risk entry point with huge upside.
The silver bubble has burst.
Silver isn’t going back to 50 bucks without extreme inflation.
http://www.barchart[PUT.DOT.HERE.TO.FIX]com/chart.php?ss=1&spread=rgld%2Fcef&p=MO&d=M&sd=01%2F01%2F2000&ed=12%2F28%2F2011&size=M&log=0&t=LINE&g=1&sh=100&indicators=&addindicator=#jump
RGLD doesn’t perform any better than a 50/50 mix of gold and silver sitting in an insured vault doing nothing.
In fact it has a slight downward bias against the vault.
Until that changes (or the div goes higher than sub 1%) it would seem safer to just hold metal.
If your comparing metal with miners, why take the risk with miners at all then.
Markets top on good news and bottom on bad.
My 2 cents is Greece gets their buckets of money over the long weekend, world markets rally on Monday & Tuesday while big money dumps to dumb money.
As for gold, Gary’s the man…
And if there’s no money in the bucket?
ROB,
Cycle rules of ‘this and that means this if we break that low’ or whatever are just made up guidelines.
The market can move however it wants in any direction at any time and reverse however it feels like it.
The rules help and all, but rules are made to be broken ESPECIALLY by financial markets.
WW-
Spot gold now below the 20 dma. Are you keying off April futures for your MAs?
>If your comparing metal with miners, why take the risk with miners at all then.
That has been my point all along, UNTIL the produce results that warrant that higher risk. (Individual stocks outperforming doesn’t count cause you need to hold at least 3-5 to be safe and then you have created your own index which will likely perform close to GDX)
A few miners have out-performed gold by a large margin, especially since end-2008, which is my reference frame. That’s when I changed my investment theme from shorting the financial sector to investing in PMs mostly miners.
I probably should have converted some of my miner profits into gold last year, but that’s to say with hindsight.
I also dabble in some turnaround stories in miners, but that’s quite risky and don’t really recommend it. Only small positions. GSS, JAG, KGN and SBB.TO. Well, the latter does not produce anything yet, but was badly beaten up after the September swoon.
“A few miners have out-performed gold by a large margin, especially since end-2008”
Doesn’t make them less risky.
Re: RGLD, I was comparing miners, not miners with metal.
Erich
There isn’t any money. As SB says, it’s all confetti. But they will print like there’s no tommorow.
Hi everybody!
Was travelling fthe whole day…now in the French Alps! Gorgeous! Gary, when are coming to climb the Mont Blanc?
I will bake you my famous chocolate cake, very little flour!
Hi Sophia,
I think we know each other. Do you work for RBS in London?
James,
No never did…what do you do there.?
ECB preparing for Greekdefault.
Sophia,
Until I get my bad knee replaced I probably won’t be climbing any big mountains for a while. I’m trying to keep it going for another year or so. I figure I need at least a year to have a shot at world records.
Training for nationals has just been one injury after another. It’s getting really frustrating.
I don’t work for RBS but I know someone from RBS called Sophia who is the Swiss Alps right now.
I don’t do anything. I’m a student.
mikezza said…
Out of the last few intermediate bottoms the dollar has either retested or crawled along the 20 day ma before taking off. is that what you think we are seeing here
February 16, 2012 6:47 PM
The dollar bounced off the 20 sma again today.
Hmmmm
I’m posting to see if this shows up or if I need to post a ” . ” to make posts appear.
Also, been catching up on the comments over the last few weeks and am now curious about the whereabouts of the Alex clubhouse where all the home run hitting occurs.
Flat market today.. not surprising.
$TRAN not buying DOW`s slight gain.
Is Monday a trading day?
Oa92000
US markets Closed on Monday.
Unknown,
Yes April contract. See if gold closes below the 20 today.
Mr M.
Yes, the trans and Spx have been diverging for a while.
thx! SF Giants
SF,
“mikezza said…
Out of the last few intermediate bottoms the dollar has either retested or crawled along the 20 day ma before taking off. is that what you think we are seeing here
February 16, 2012 6:47 PM
The dollar bounced off the 20 sma again today.
Hmmmm”
Yup, were seeing the exact opposite with gold, we got a 10dma swoop in effect on the dollar which if the trend is turning back up out of an IC bottom, will cross above the 20dma and support the move higher. Its like a cradle effect.
If one were expecting a trend change here in the $, either because of a recognizable bottom or cycle low, entry would be on the 20dma, This is the 10sma swoop I use on 5 minute gold for scalps.
Here is an interesting chart. Gives one a worm feeling at bottoms.
SF Giant,
About your chart, I guess it means people are bullish about miners?
I have seen it before, forgot how to interpret it.
GREK (Greece ETF) up almost 6% on almost 6X average daily volume. Go figure.
hi
Intell2000
It’s the Miner bullish% over the $HUI. Both tend to move in the same direction just the bullish% lags. It’s going lower today because the $HUI is dropping. We are in no mans land. Could go either way but the direction today it somewhat telling. Usually doesn’t turn up after it starts to roll over. If it does turn up it’s short lived.
.
This comment has been removed by the author.
..
WW
There’s no volume on that EFT. 45k traded. That only $900k. Pocket change for some here.
Look at the average volume, if I did trade it would just be me and you 🙂
Definitely all greek volume.
WW
So how do you think this Greek mess is going to play out next week?
Pop and drop?
SF,
We may have seen the pop already.
What good news is not factored into this market already?
SF Giant,
Thanks for your response. I really don’t understand how to interpret that miners bullish index. A few times miners look bearish but it keeps going lower (the GDX and the HUI index).
But then, I really am not good at reading charts regardless.
EMINI INTRA
http://traderjoed.blogspot.com/
You guys remember last what? Sept, Oct, Gary had in one of the reports about the large numbers on SOS. Not necassarily huge numbers but a lot of big numbers adding up to a big pile of change. The thought being that the Boyz were packing up their toys and getting ready to leave the party. I`d say their changing oil and checking tires now. The one I really notice is the ratio on the block trades. A very lopsided affair.
Today’s high on the SPX is stretched almost 8.5% above the 200dma, the first cycle after QE 2 was stretched 9%.
W2,
I am onyour camp….
Today may have been a backtest of the DC down trendline for gold.
It is finny the way Gold and Silver are behaving…
When I left London this morning, Gold June was trading 1738, and S&P 1355.
While I was travelling, I received a twit from Gann360 mentionning that S&P was touching 1363…imagine my surpirse when I finally reach my PC to realise that Gold was at 1722! very weird action today
86d4life
What do you see in the block trades? Bullish?
sophia, if you will bake the cake, I will eat it :o)
Backtest for the Dollar as well.
Todd,
Negative on that. I say bearish. The block traders are taking money off the table and putting almost none on. Letting Joe 6 Pack put it on, they take it off.
Eamonn,
I will bake two then…with a nice coffee, it is irrestible!
Intell2000
Bullish% is percentage of miners PnF patterns that are bullish. So that is why when that is in the mud, ur close to a bottom.
And of course there has to be something cotradictory to that. Look at the whoppers on BOW. I think this is why the saying, `Hell is the impossibility of reason`.
If I had to guess I would say the market makes a marginal new high to draw in the last buyers and then rolls over into an ICL.
BoW is being affected by Options X
Gary,
You don’t seem particularly bullish…
Im putting on some weekly GLD 157 puts at the close.
WW
A little insurance ehh?
Yup 🙂
Sophia,
So far the market is doing what I think it needs to do. It’s holding above the consolidation zone. Miners are a little weaker than I would have liked but the weekly chart looks constructive. Our stop is close so I’m going to let the trade work and see what happens.
Sophia, You keep mentioning that delicious chocolate cake…any chance I get a taste of some this summer?
Gary, sorry to hear about your knee.
I had part of my right knee’s meniscus removed, so switched from climbing to cycling 15 yrs back. Cycling and swimming are the only 2 exercises that are easy on the knees (I’m afraid), according to Dr Mirkin, who is Lance’s sports doctor. And there’s no fixing it, as cartilage doesn’t grow back. Squats don’t hurt my knee for some reason. But the way you Olympic weightlifters throw weights around, I’m not surprised that the knee is super stressed.
Sorry if a repeat, but does anyone know the exact max pain numbers for GLD? SLV? SPY? Thanks.
WW, did you mean 167 GLD Puts?
at ease,
Nope, I am expecting a $100 drop in gold.
At ease,
We are definitely meeting up in the summer!
Actually a $60 drop.
Bill – http://www.optionpain.com/OptionPain/Option-Pain.php
GLD: 165, SLV: 31, SPY: 132, AAPL: 455
Looks like none of the above is happening today.
Sophia…looking forward to it!
Save me some of that chocolate cake!
Every time you mention it, I get hungry. 🙂
Gold falls deep the 200dma will stop it.
Ok, gotcha, you are looking for some cheap ones. LOL gotcha!
Thanks Gary!
W2,
I wouldn’t mind if you could be right….just to check if I am still analysing this Europe stuff right….
Then, I will buy with both hands!
WW, a $60 drop to a DCL?
At ease,
For the kids, I do a chocolate roulade with Nutella…that one is never staying more than 5 minutes on the counter!!
Sophia, I can imagine… I had to go get a chocolate chip cookie after talking chocolate cake. 😉
For the record, I exercise at least once a week…LOL
Sophia, je penses que vous devrez sérieusement pensear a ouvrir une patisserie uniquement pour vendre vos gateaux au chocolat 🙂
Moi même, j´ai envie de les gouter lol.
Bon week-end.
Neo,
Je prefere en faire profiter a mes enfants et mes amis….passe quand tu veux,!
Enough with the chocolate cake
Your killing me 🙂
Eamonn,
If gold topped, this A-wave was a mini C-wave, and the B-wave is a mini D-wave, gold will waterfall from here. Falling fruit.
Merci beaucoup 🙂
Thanks Curtains.
I’ve seen that site before and heard that it’s not as accurate as another site, which requires a subscription.
So if none of these max pain numbers were hit, why does ANYONE on this blog care about options expiration? Isn’t it just another day in the park? It seems a totally non-event to me. Please someone educate me otherwise. Thanks.
Sophia´s Chocolate Cake has became the new bull interest of the century 🙂
More and more person are looking for a slice 🙂
WW,
It appears that gold, silver, and SLW are all going to close within 1% four weeks in a row.
Also, todays sell off was the weakest volume sell off in the last 3 weeks. We are going sideways and the volume is drying up.
Why do you think we get such a big sell off?
WW, thanks
Ok, let’s talk bizz…so Dow 13000, Greek saved by the Germans, cats and dogs living together….
Gary,
If you are expecting the SP500 to fall, why are we still holding GDX?
Doesn’t it will fall more than SP500?
Bill – good point. I think the theory doesn’t work as well when the market is on fire, but that’s just me. Of course if it was that easy everybody would be doing it, too. If you have Thinkorswim you can look at the actual open interest numbers which might be more telling. I checked AAPL yesterday and it looked like 480-490 might be a good target (just from eyeballing it).
I’m inclined to follow WW and add one more 1650 or 1675 put option. I have played that game in the past, buying put options a week before opex (futures options expire next week) and done really well. The 1675 is currently $120/160. That would pay off huge in a nice spike down. I already have some in anticipation of selloffs that haven’t materialized, so maybe this time it will work.
Todd,
I have seen this pattern resolve to the downside hard many times, not always. I recognized it at the C-wave top right before the fall.
I am wondering what Slumdog is thinking….
WW has a ton of experience watching price movement, so if he says it could happen we’d better be prepared. 😉
WW,
Since you expect more downside on Gold, assuming that equities start to fall to their ICL soon, can we still have a continuous D Wave ? Or this option is out of the question, by your experience ?
Thks
W2,
Aren’t you having your surgery next week? Is the hairy Bertha looking after your puts?
You know, standing back on a 5 yr daily log chart of $GOLD, given how much gold ran up last year, this correction is pretty small so far. Also the lower highs and lower lows is very prominent. We are definitely still correcting.
ok WW,
Thanks, I exited out of 90% and will rebuy if we break above 1738 next week. Nice call on your exit earlier, I wish I had responded sooner.
I’m comparing the correction now w/2008, which was much larger %-wise, and had 1 more huge down. Maybe WW is sniffing that out.
Neo,
Way too early to talk about the D-wave still being in effect. Im not expecting gold to drop hard unless the stock market does, but im prepared for it because of what im seeing. When I recognize my falling fruit pattern it almost always plays out as I expect. If you recall, a couple days ago I mentioned that I was expecting one more day for the branch to form completely before the fruit dropped, we seen it happen. A rallying stock market and the 150dma acted as a floor and gold bounced out of that fall. This pattern is still in effect with today’s down day.
Sophia,
I will be trading while they are operating on me.
Todd,
The markets aren’t going anywhere, its better to be safe than sorry. I didn’t like what I was seeing this morning so I got out quick, if I had more time to recognize it I would have posted earlier, I posted as quick as possible.
LOL WW, you are too funny, but good position to be in, if you are under. 🙂
Guess no dcl low yet. 🙂
More twiddling…
Thanks WW,
Time to rest. Enjoy your week-end.
Right now, especially with this weekend in front of us, gold could go either way hard. I would rather miss some upside than be caught hard to the downside and possibly stuck down there, if a B-wave the draw down is not something im about to hold through with futures.
Well said WW.
Have a nice weekend everyone.
Have a good weekend everyone. Time to play with the kids 🙂
WW, You alerted me with pleny of time. I have no problems with when you posted. I got up late thinking I did not need to worry about my position. Of course, I was quite wrong.
Thanks for your help this week.
Todd,
You got it 🙂
Sophia enjoy your travels!
I have 4 Grandkids with Disney this week coming up. 🙂
WW, Let’s hope that;s what we see!
We have been waiting and twiddling awhile here waiting for this set up.
Rest and have a good weekend!
Would just like to mention a pattern im looking at on a daily for the bullish case here in gold…
The D-wave has formed a slanted “W” pattern, the break out of the D-wave upper trendline on 1/25 was a technical move resulting in high volume (typical of this pattern’s break of the trendline). We are now in the consolidation stage of the break above the trendline, if one measures from the “W” low (Dec low) extended up to the trendline (neck line), taking that measurement and placing it on top of today we get a target of pretty much a test of the all time highs. A move to the upside from here would then form an inverted H&S pattern.
Danno,
I’ll let you chart it out for us
I like your charts, they’re pretty 🙂
On the 5 yr weekly chart of $SILVER, comparing the current correction w/that in 2008, as I did for $GOLD earlier, it looks likee there’s one more big down to go.
I’m starting to think again that the scenario that Gary spelled out, that of the $SPX taking $GOLD down, will in fact happen. Next.
Gary,
would you tell me how options x affects BOW. I mean what is the mechanical process. Thanks.
MARKETS
http://traderjoed.blogspot.com/
snalaska[PUT.DOT.HERE.TO.FIX]net/cot/current/charts/SI.png
WOW!. some sort of huge game of chicken or something is going on with the commercial shorts vs spec longs on silver.
this is pretty weird.
The open interest (green line) is NOT increasing, but the two sides are becomming progressively more opposed. Not sure I’ve ever seen that before.
EVERYBODY,
You do not have to keep posting “.” comments to get to page 2 of this blog.
From the main SMT page, click the TITLE of the articles to read them (on a BLUE background).
Do NOT read the article from the main page and then click the “xxx comments” link on the bottom to get to them. This is a MISTAKE and you will then have a BEIGE background and you won’t be able to move from page to page.
Only post comments using pages with BEIGE backgrounds (by clicking “Post a comment” on a blue page.)
READ the blog using pages with BLUE backgrounds by clicking the article TITLE.
It helps to keep TWO tabs open in your browser: one being the blue background page you READ from. The other being the beige ‘post a comment’ page only for posting.
If you don’t listen to me you will keep having this problem.
AND everytime you want to read new comments on the beige page (like most of you are doing) you have to hit refesh and then scroll to the bottom. You don’t have to do that on the blue pages.
WW,
I will check out the W pattern this weekend and crank out a chart. Turned the computer off mid day before your post. Thanks
Sophia,
Whereabouts are you in the Alps?
I just got back from Val Thorens in the 3 valleys area – was stunning
Armo,
Chamonix…this morning, clear skies, not a loud, stunning view of the Mont Blanc and the Aiguille du Midi….
Sophia
Sounds fantastic, you’ve got me wishing I was back. – it was very cold when I was there – minus 30 one day! But the alpine cheese, Ham and wine helped take the edge off
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Video Who knows what the market do next week? The fact is Greece is doomed.
Video Farage: Globalist Troika Driving Greece Towards Violent Revolution.
I’m with WW, Gold will hit $1640 before the next leg up….count on it
Wouldn’t it be nice if we could count on anything in this market?
WW,
Catching up on the board here in London, and wishing my mentors in the States (and elsewhere) a happy holiday. Good luck with your surgery, you are remembered in my prayers.
True, but I also remember you telling me once the market will do what it is supposed to….everything else is just noise
And you know gold is supposed to drop to $1640 why?
A normal DCL should have moved consistently down by now and should be generating fear. This one has been consolidating instead. Friday would’ve been the 34th day of the daily cycle.
Seems kind of late to all of a sudden drop 100 points, especially with the market showing no signs of topping, especially after completely ignoring the break in Apple.
WW mentioned falling fruit.
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http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-02-18/china-cuts-banks-reserve-ratios-a-second-time-as-europe-threatens-growth.html
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Greyerz – Gold to Begin a Major Advance Starting Next Week http://goo.gl/irpBo
Smart bullion
How do you make those short links?
SF Giants Fan, go to http://goo.gl/ :o)
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Smartbullion
Try this to make clickable links
beep
Hey, SF Giants, thanks for posting the report. That’s Doc’s site, right?
Smart bullion
You da man!!
Eamonn,
“Greyerz – Gold to Begin a Major Advance Starting Next Week”
If the slanted “W” pattern that I spotted continues to play out gold will certainly start a major advance to test the highs. This type of pattern does break down though at times, and when it does it usually breaks hard, falling fruit.
Kal
No. Docs site is listed on Gary’s home page
LOL @ SF Giants Fan
Here is a chart showing Gold’s ABCD waves. It depicts that during the D-Wave there is a 1-2-3 pattern (down-up-down). So far, we have gotten the 1-2 (down-up). Possibility of a 3 reversal down to come.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-4P3HVMasZuE/TzvpXWN1a8I/AAAAAAAAGaw/8xUmx5x5qsQ/s1600/Gold%2BTA.PNG
Mrsu
So according to your chart, the d wave bottom is still in front of us?
SFG,
The chart is not mine. It was linked from the jsmineset website.
Maybe, the pattern will play out for this D-wave. Who knows?
Graicas, Los Gigantes de San Francisco.
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Things remain tense relative to an EU approval of the next bailout for Greece. link
German Finance Minister want Greece to default Link
Other than ‘Options for Dummies’, does anyone here know any excellent resources for trading options?
Rob,
Free options training course:
http://education.optionseducation.org/
MrSu ,
thank you
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For anyone looking to purchase physical silver Apmex has 100 oz bars $0.79 over spot this weekend only.
http://bit.ly/ylLrHa
D-wave was done end of Dec….won’t be seeing those $$$ again
But I guess as the saying goes….We shall see, said the blind men 🙂
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SLV
http://traderjoed.blogspot.com/
There is a lot of thin air above 1365
Gary
About your knee, are you still going those new injections you were talking about a few months ago? What was that called again?
PRP treatment.
Yes I got my third one done a couple of weeks ago.
Gary, DOC, and my system all seem to point to strength ahead for gold. I’m waiting final confirmation for my system to go to a buy, and will post updated #’s once gold opens on Comex tonight.
In the weekend report I said I think gold will likely break higher also. It’s had every chance to break down and it just hasn’t done it. Now it’s getting too late in the daily cycle to expect another hard move down.
I guess it wears off after some time. I’m going to have get my shoulder redone at some point, putting that off too.
Keep in mind that we have futures options expiring next week and need to be ready for shenanigans while keeping our heads straight.Some new studies I’m undertaking are also pointing to strength dead ahead.
Gary if this is a continuation of an Awave, and we do make a nice move, how far does a Bwave fall? Half of an Awave advance?
Also, the gold bug community I’ve followed for a decade seems to be extremely fearful of continued downside action, and they are usually dead wrong.
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Does anybody know at what Gold starts trading on Sunday night please?
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Sophia,
Check this out. One of the guys posted this over at Docs;
http://images.optionsxpress.com/static/pdf/Presidents%20DayHolidaySchedule2012.pdf
86,
Thank you
FYI, for all who are interersted; SLV, SLW, and GLD are all showing consolidation per my trade signals. I am and have been long all three. The miners are starting to break out here and there.
I still am placing trades and am biased towards volatility turning up.
Gary switched TVIX, thanks.
I guess that a deal will be agreed… Eur/dollar at 1.32 tonight
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Hey Veronica:
Any updates from the COMEX open? Nice strength…
Thanks as always for sharing!
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The buy stop has not changed much,surprisingly. At 1738 right now, and it will be buying without a stop again.
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Went long about 4x gold futures with a small stop.
I think we have a 2-3 week triangle here and it is now breaking out and up at this point.
Seems like a reasonable bet and i’m risking less than 2% net worth on the trade.
So, now that we are at 1370 on S&P, where do we go? 1425 this month ?
My preferred method of buying is pullbacks, but we never got one after the ‘recognition move’ on the 25th and I agree with gary (and others) that we’ve had time to drop and don’t seem able to.
VERONICA,
>Keep in mind that we have futures options expiring next week…
Options expire each month, true. But only SOME months are large ‘delivery’ months (although someone can take delivery in any month).
There are only some months with large volume and hence large options open interest too. (It is based on the specifications of the contract and when each month is ‘opened’ for trading).
http://www.cmegroup[PUT.DOT.HERE.TO.FIX]com/trading/metals/precious/gold_quotes_settlements_futures.html
Mar coming up is NOT one of those months. So anticipated games from options should be low or non existent.
The APR contract (starting delivery end of march) is large though. That would be the next point for expected options games.
TZ, yes the less active contracts usually don’t have as much effect.
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Higher high now on gold (the drop on fri is looking like a options manipulation) and we are also now above the downtrend ‘cycle’ line of gary/doc.
So far so good.
System just went to a buy, and it does not have a stop currently.
Welcome to the party
🙂
Although i would never use a system without a stop.
No reason to.
No reason to take that risk no matter how good you think what you have is.
A stop at friday’s lows minimally. Never leave a position open.
Just say “at what point is this trade not doing what it is supposed to do?” “At what point do I don’t want to be long?”
If we went below 1706 I would say that is a pretty good indication something is wrong. Why risk more than that?
TZ, I’ve been at this game long enough to always have some sort of stop independent of my system.
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>TZ, I’ve been at this game long enough to always have some sort of stop independent of my system.
But you are telling other people here (who follow you) that you are long without a stop.
I’m aware you know what you are doing.
Trader Lady,
Can you send me an email, Looking for some information, while in Florida this week. [email protected] Thanks!
Or that’s how I interpreted it. Sorry if wrong.
TZ, what do you think? Should I stop posting my system trades?
Not at all. Don’t stop posting the entries. Sorry to make it a big deal.
People seem to follow you and you specifically mentioned you system went long with no stop.
I just thought that was dangerous and was trying to caution that people should have a stop always.
TZ,
Anyone who trades futures realizes a stop is absolutely necessary. Veronica is merely indicating the results of this system. If anyone trading futures does not know that, they deserve what they get. No need to be so critical. Good call on the 4x trade, I believe this will be above 1740 before we wake up.
I went long at the open but I don’t like it, will add above 1741, and like even less. Must mean a turn upwards cause my gut is always wrong. Have to be emotionless for this. I have stops.
Started clicking on the post text TZ so not have to post .
I love to see Veronica’s trading signal on Futures. Stops should be the most basic risk management skill in everyone’s investment strategy.
If someone trades without his/her own stops by playing Futures, then it’s already a miracle that he/she still exists in the investment world without blowing up his/her account.
SPX vs Higher oil prices
History does not repeat itself, but it rhymes.
March 2012?
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Thanks Veronica for keeping us updated on your buy signals. 🙂
Each year the US breaches its debt ceiling at a record pace. Debt is rising faster relative to the growth of gross domestic product (GDP). In the last four years alone, national debt has risen by $6.1 trillion and has been accompanied by a $96 billion rise in real GDP.
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